William Garden gulf vs rawson pilot house boats

[conrat66]

Does anyone familar with either of these vessels have an opinion of the build quality of one vs the other. Gulfs seem to be a bit less expensive and was wondering WHY??? Thanks for any info or opinions.....Thank YOu!

[Faster]

Both these boats were quite heavily built. Both full keelers, slow but spacious. The Rawson pilothouse version was a bit of an afterthought, and so the Gulfs, which were designed that way, look better (IMO). You may have better wheelhouse visibility on the Rawson.

Though I haven't checked myself, I'm surprised that you write the Rawsons are priced higher than the Gulfs. I'd have expected otherwise. There are probably fewer Rawsons around, perhaps that's why.

Heavy, comfy cruisers that will be difficult to maneuver in close quarters, as any full keeler will be. Friends recently bought a Gulf 32, which they are very happy with.

The Gulf boats were built by Capital yachts, the same folks that build the Newport series of Mull and C&C designs. The Gulf and the Rawson were, IIRC, both drawn by Bill Garden. I think Rawsons were built in Wash. State.

[CharlieCobra]

Yeah, tell me about full keel boats. Mine goes forward and turns fine but when it comes to backing? She goes where she wants...., PERIOD!

[sailboy21]

Originally Posted by Faster

Both these boats were quite heavily built. Both full keelers, slow but spacious. The Rawson pilothouse version was a bit of an afterthought, and so the Gulfs, which were designed that way, look better (IMO). You may have better wheelhouse visibility on the Rawson.

Though I haven't checked myself, I'm surprised that you write the Rawsons are priced higher than the Gulfs. I'd have expected otherwise. There are probably fewer Rawsons around, perhaps that's why.

Heavy, comfy cruisers that will be difficult to maneuver in close quarters, as any full keeler will be. Friends recently bought a Gulf 32, which they are very happy with.

The Gulf boats were built by Capital yachts, the same folks that build the Newport series of Mull and C&C designs. The Gulf and the Rawson were, IIRC, both drawn by Bill Garden. I think Rawsons were built in Wash. State.

Rawson pilothouses were limited production. Total Pilothouse 30's built (1976 to 1985) 36. The surviving examples are usually quite well cared for (and loved), and cost about double what your typical Rawson 30 would run. Rawsons have developed a bit of a following. You can go to rawsonownersnet on yahoo groups to join that discussion. They were built in Redmond, WA. Gulf's seem to be everywhere on the west coast. They look just bout as substantial as the Rawson. Not going to comment as to which one looks better, I'm biased.


They sure look like sisters:

[Valiente]

That's part of the reason I got a four-blade feathering prop that can have different pitches in forward and reverse. Basically, I want to back into the slip under raw power like a mini-van, and I have seen a boat with a similar keel to mine do exactly that in slips using a three-bladed AutoProp.

With a fixed prop, basically I coast in neutral and just give a little shot of reverse with the rudder hard over, sending a "squirt" of thrust to move the stern in, rather than to stop the boat. That is the job of the spring line.

[Jeff_H]

I don't know much about Rawsons, but Gulf has a reputation for pretty poor build quality, which I have experienced first hand on thier Newport series of boats. The Gulfs also have a reputation for being really poor sailors, with very uncomfortable roll and pitch motions. That may be why they are cheaply priced....

[bwindrope]

Well, I can't speak for what Jeff has heard from other Gulf owners, but our
Gulf is not poorly built and is hardly uncomfortable! My wife and I have owned an Ericson 28 and chartered practically every Hunter, Beneteau, Catalina model out there and been on many a Cascade/Crealock/Etc. and there is no doubt whatsoever that our Gulf is a better all around cruising boat in terms of comfort, performance and solidity than anything else we've been on. Not as fast, but not slow. I find I can keep up with or pass most every other boat on the water near my size, if I try. And the incredible light and space and head room and airy feel of our pilothouse Gulf make it stand head and shoulders above all the other dark small dungeons out there.

Every boat has pros and cons, of course, but one of the most wonderful characteristics of the Gulf 32 is the performance/value ratio. We could have bought any used boat her size for our family cruising and were overjoyed when a Gulf came up for sale in our local waters. Having sailed her in all kinds of conditions, outside of ocean crossing gales, I can testify to what every other Gulf owner will say: She is stiff and forgiving and carries her sails well and keeps you feeling safe and comfortable in all conditions. See the Tsing Tao website for an exhaustive description of Gulf 32 characteristics including in rough weather.

Having done a major retrofit of our 20 year old Gulf, there is no doubt that some things were not done to current codes, but I have not found shoddy or careless work anywhere. My Ericson, which we enjoyed, was certainly no better in build quality. And talk about uncomfortable motions...

Hadn't heard of Rawson's. Glad to learn about them.

We love our Gulf and wouldn't trade her for anything else I've been on yet. You can discern my bias if you read carefully!!

[Moonfish]

I looked at both, and finally go to the point where I decided I would get whichever one I found first that was a good value for the money. Though I will say, somewhat echoing JeffH's comments and having owned a Newport 28, that the Rawson's are more "solidly built". Not to say the Gulf's are cheap, but Capital Yachts like all similar manufacturers during that era built boats to a price point. I do think the Gulf's were built better than my Newport was. The joke around here about Rawson's is that you could drop one from the Space Needle and still sail it away...

Regarding market value, the Rawson PHs have typically been quite a bit more than the standard sloop models (due to their relative rarity), but still somewhat less than a Gulf 32 (probably due to their ubiquity). You can find either model for a good price and condition, though the average asking prices for both seem to be increasing.

As far as performance, I am more familiar with the Gulf. Every single owner I've talked to says they are surprisingly good performers, with most of them impressed with the boats ability to point higher and more comfortably than they would have imagined. Rawson owners more often mention the feeling of safety and comfort their boat gives them in harsh conditions. Some of said they are fairly slow, which is no surprise given the even shorter waterline.

William Garden himself has stated that the "little Gulf 32" was one of his favorite all time designs.

[Faster]

Interesting that both pilothous versions of the Rawson shown above have bowsprits... the original 30 did not, though many have been modified.

I'd expect that to be due to some inherently heavy weather helm, relieved somewhat by using the bowsprit to move the CE forward on the sailplan.

btw Rawson also built a 26 footer, often described as a round chine, masthead version of the venerable Ben Seaborn designed Thunderbird.

[sailboy21]

Originally Posted by Faster

Interesting that both pilothous versions of the Rawson shown above have bowsprits... the original 30 did not, though many have been modified.

I'd expect that to be due to some inherently heavy weather helm, relieved somewhat by using the bowsprit to move the CE forward on the sailplan.

btw Rawson also built a 26 footer, often described as a round chine, masthead version of the venerable Ben Seaborn designed Thunderbird.

The bowsprits were factory, and yes, a direct result of weather helm issues. All pilothouse versions were bowsprit equipped. Some Rawson owners have tried various mast/sprit combinations, rigging like a cutter, etc with varying degrees of success. Rawsons even came in a very rare Ketch variety. A "yawl conversion kit" was available, but who would add MORE weather helm???
The 26 is very similar to a T-bird and nothing at all like the 30. I beleive they even share the same cast iron keel. T-birds are still a blast to sail and having a glass version would be that much better I suspect. Kinda like the old plywood vs. glass Lightnings.