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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum > Sailboat Design and Construction
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  #21  
Old 07-31-2009
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A no win situation

Yep Jeff_H has more experience sailing - as I have stated specifically in other threads. I did not mean to imply that he was an armchair sailor - it was a somewhat badly timed "sidebar" referring to the fact that a lot of people on this forum worry way too much about the numbers relating to yacht design. I also did not mean to attack him personally - as stated in my very first post on this forum I have no doubt he means well.

I do apologize if it came across as a personal attack. On the other hand I did not add two "Stick out Tongue" smiley faces as he did at the end of every paragraph on one of his recent posts.

Jeff_H considering you are listed as an "Architect" in your biography your experience/training in yacht design surprises me. Especially considering some of your statements. And especially so, considering some of the conclusions you come to regarding boats and stability/full keels etc. Your acknowledgement that you are not - perfect or all knowing about yacht design is also surprising considering how point blank condescending a tone you use to answer peoples questions.

But thats life and we should just leave it at that.

And we should leave it at that as this is way off topic from what this thread is about.

Because this is a no win situation. I think this forum will be a useful tool as I hopefully do purchase my first large sailboat in the near future. But I will not respond on this thread anymore about this matter. I believe private messages are available for this sort of thing. If it needs to be addressed at all - which I don't think it does.

Obviously however great a guy Jeff_H is - however much experience he has - his post's rub me the wrong way. I will try to control that before I click "Submit Reply" in the future.

thanks,

Ericb
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  #22  
Old 07-31-2009
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Well said

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnshasteen View Post
Jeff and all you fin keel, spade rudder fans might find this of interest and this not my opinion, this is objective observation: The last time I sailed Paloma up to Southern Yachts (a mega-shipyard off of Galveston Bay), for a bottom job and new zincs, a full 60% of the sailboats blocked up on the hard were fin keel/spade rudder boats, with bent rudder posts or separated keels. The biggest batch of bent rudder posts were on big, expensive Beneteaus while most of the separated keels were a variety of fin keelers. One of the separated keels was an Irwin that had hit a submerged object low on the keel and it pulled the keel away from the hull enough that you could put your hand between the hull and the forward edge of the keel.
And, as well you might guess, none of the keel-hung or skeg-hung rudder boats were among the disabled.
If you like the Bayfield - buy it. The cockpit is kind of small and deep, making it a bit hard to see over the cabin trunk, but it's a sturdy little boat that will take you most places you'll likely go - not quickly, but it will make it there. And, don't worry about the story of the Bayfield 25 that barrel rolled twice in 55 knot winds - there's a whole world of boats in that size range that would not have survived the first roll.
Yes as stated on my first post "A lot of things in life are a blend of different aspects of science and art, are subject to differing opinions and subject to the uninformed jumping to the wrong conclusions about what makes something tick. But none more so than boat design."

It is a personal choice and you have to weigh what is most important to you. This (yacht design) will never be a topic that a majority will agree upon every aspect of.

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Last edited by Ericb; 07-31-2009 at 07:50 PM.
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  #23  
Old 07-31-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camaraderie View Post
John...thats why you want an encapsulated fin keel and a skeg hung rudder!
Agreed and double agreed!!! That's why the boats I've owned over the years have all been encapsulated lead keels some full keeled (a beautiful Bayfield 29 - way too much wood to take care of and an Eastward Ho 24 - a 24 foot boat ought not to displace 7,200 lbs) and the rest have been modified fin and skeg hung rudder boats (like Paloma).
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Last edited by johnshasteen; 08-03-2009 at 11:51 AM.
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Old 10-18-2009
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Careening is no big deal if you have the right boat. I have an Islander Bahama 24 that I have careened 4 times. It has 7'8" beam and a full keel with a cutaway forefoot. The rudder is keel-hung. The keel is encapsulated lead in a thick layer of glass. The draft is 3'6". The boat sits at an absurd angle of heel when careened, but on a sloping muddy beach with good tidal range and no wake, I was able to do it without incident.

I would careen the Bayfield 25 confidently in a calm harbor. Mind the weather and tides. Fridays and Saturdays are generally bad days for this due to motor boat wakes. Make sure she lies down right side up, this can be done by making a halyard fast to a bulkhead.

I am not sure about the laws of careening, I researched them heavily, reading a lot of material and contacting a lot of government agencies, I could not find any info that was meaningful.

I would assume that it is illegal, and act accordingly. I do know for sure that the EPA would charge you fines for painting on a tidal beach.
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Old 10-18-2009
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Another alternative is making fast to a pier as the tide recedes... this was the typical practice for years, but for some reason has gone out of favor.
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Old 03-11-2014
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Re: bayfied 25

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnhr View Post
I also have a Bayfield 25 and yes much smaller boats have made it,it is a very solid and exellent crusier and if you did not push and waited for decent wheather you would be fine and if you had some experaince and did not over do it you could wheather a storm I have thought about doing it and I am in Lagoon city on Lake Simcoe north of Toronto
Oh this what you do in the winter john lol
Sincerely randy hines
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