Fractional Rig vs. Mast Head Rig

[Jeff_H]

A couple quick thoughts on Sasha's observations, masthead rigs generally emply stiffer spars because masthead rigs generally have significantly higher compression loads. This makes controlled mast bend more difficult. But also, even on masthead rig boats with bendy spars, generally it takes a pair of adjustments (babystay and backstay) to achieve the same level of bend achieved with a single backstay adjustment on a fractional rig.

Babystays generally make tacking more difficult since you need to drag the genoa around a stay that is out in front of the mast. This usually is not a problem when racing with crew, but is a nuisance when single-handing.

While I don't know the specifics of Sasha's boat, in a general sense, if a masthead rig boat is able to carry its #1 in breezes up to 25-28 knots, in most cases that boat would be way undercanvassed in moderate to light conditions.

For offshore work, especially on smaller boats, I really like the idea of a hanked on jib with a downhaul, and netting on the forward lifelines, which allows the sail to be doused from the cockpit.

Respectfully,
Jeff

[mikehoyt]

I recently went boat shopping

Criteria was 1. cheaper than last boat. 2. Would give up interior comfort but required same or better performance.

In looking I saw a lot of cool boats. Some were masthead and some fractional. As I generally sail with a crew I was not biased for that reason but I had one huge reason to prefer Fractional rigs.

MONEY!!!!!

On a fractional boat the main is the most expensive sail. Similar sized boats will typically have a more expensive main on the fractional than the masthead but far cheaper headsails and spinnakers. Something in the order of 2/3 to 3/4 the cost of a headsail on a fractional boat to that on a similar sized masthead boat.

Since my boats typically only have one regularly used mainsail and at least three headsails (including spin) I decided I like fractional boats the best.

Jeff's comment that masthead boats usually require more headsails just adds more money to the argument.

For fun just take a J27 and a C&C27 (mark III, IV or V) to your local loft and ask for their pricing sheets. It is scary!

Note that I raced regularly on a Petersen / Wiggers 37 MH rig last two years and like it just as much. But then I am not paying for sails on that boat as I am only crew!

BTW - Paulk - I love the lines of your boat. What is it?

Mike

J27 #150
Nut Case

[Sasha_V]

Well, she moves at around 5knots...but until the wind gets up to about 12-15knots, if you are racing against Nolexs and the like...it is just embarrassing. Once the weather hits 18 knots we are considerably faster and more comfortable too.

.
Sasha

[Faster]

Originally Posted by mikehoyt

....but I had one huge reason to prefer Fractional rigs.

MONEY!!!!!

....... Something in the order of 2/3 to 3/4 the cost of a headsail on a fractional boat to that on a similar sized masthead boat.

Great point, Mike... keeping the costs of headsails down has gotta help, esp if you're racing.

As others have pointed out, too, if the main on a frac is sufficiently powered up, you can get by cruising with a small non overlapping headsail (and a kite). This keeps costs down yet again, and leaves the Vberth or Quarter berth less littered with sailbags.

Small, relatively inexpensive sails, easy quick tacks - these are some serious advantages over the long haul.

btw - it's no wonder you admire PaulK's boat.. Its a J36!

[chef2sail]

While I understand the ease and rationale behind spending less on the sails for a fractional rig, I like Sasha prefer the mast head configuration for its pointing ability. When we race competitively its a great advantage to have 5 degrees advantage on the inside track beating and be able to balance the boat sail area wise with the fractional rigged boats. Many times thats the only margin for winning. We have a C&C 35 MKIII. Had I a larger boat I might reconsider. That J36 is a beauty.

Dave

[Jeff_H]

Chef2sail, I don't know who you are racing, but at least at high level racing, and in the more casual environment of cruising, masthead rigs really do not point any higher than fractional rigs. What you may be mistaking is the fact that fractional rigs tend to be used on more modern hullforms than the C&C 35 and with a modern hullform the fastest VMG's are achieved by turning down a couple degrees from the direction held by older hulls. In reality, a similar length and sail area fractional rig will typically will point and foot with a masthead rig.

Jeff

[chef2sail]

Jeff H,

I respect your knowledge, and have learned much from other including you on here.

What I do not respect is your chiding childish phrase in your thread "I dont know who your are racing in high level racing". You obviously feel the need to put down others with what you feel is some sort of superior attitude. Try and remember when teaching others with your vast and superior knowledge that teaching others is like when you taught your children (assuming you had some), when you want them to learn something putting them down is usually not the best way to get them to listen or learn and have confidence in their decisions.

In spite of the manner in which you presented yourself your point has great merit and I stand corrected.

Dave

[Faster]

Chef2 - if you review JeffH's posts you will find that he generally goes out of his way to avoid giving offense... you have misquoted him here and I think misinterpeted his approach.

[rhaley]

chef2sail

I have read virtually every post JeffH has made on this forum, and I really believe that you have misinterpreted the "tone" of his last post. His posts are consistently some of the most informative and factual you will find here and I very seriously doubt that there was any chiding intended on his part. I know I certainly didn't read it that way. Emotion and tone of voice are difficult to express in typed word. For what it's worth...

Ryan

[camaraderie]

Ditto that Chef...I re-read everything twice and don't think the harshness you perceived was there...especially knowing Jeff.