Questions about altering keel, motor size . . .?

[Bruan]

Thanks to all for the responses. I have read them all, and have a few comments:

John Pollard: I don't think water depth in the canal itself would be a problem, but I would use the boat elsewhere, in the Finger Lakes, where it might be. As for powering, a guy at another forum told me that as long as I didn't care about speed, a displacement hull would be the most economical to power -- that was one reason he suggested a sailboat. All of your other points are interesting; thanks.

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artbyjody: Interesting! I googled that name around and found out more. Thanks! Not surprisingly, I'd never heard of them.

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Faster: "A well designed sailboat has an easy motion that is the combination of the righting moment of the ballast countered by the mass and inertia of the rig. When you remove the rig the boat has a very snappy motion that can be quite uncomfortable."

I read a similar comment on another site. The concept is easy to understand; the mast etc. acts as kind of a counterbalance to the ballast. But with the mast off, it seems the boat would be very stable and not rock much at all under ordinary circumstances. Under heavy weather I can see how it would roll then "snap" back quickly, but otherwise wouldn't it be VERY stable?

When you say "fishboat," what exactly do you mean? A working boat?

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Sailing Dog: I like your idea a lot. A few years ago, before I came up with the idea of converting a pontoon boat into a houseboat, I thought I would buy a small cuddy cabin. But the smaller ones (20') don't have much besides berths, have way bigger engines, and way less fuel economy than what I want. But the mini trawler is a very interesting idea and much more suited for my use. The only problem might be the cost of buying one. But I will definitely pursue it; I'm not in any rush.

I will continue digging and will post back if I have more sailboat questions. Any further comments, of course, are welcome.

Thanks again!

[sailingdog]

If I can dig up a photo and make/model of the mini-trawler that a neighbor has down at the marina, I'll post it. The boat uses an outboard motor and gets very good fuel mileage as a result, and also has a fair bit more cabin space, since there is no engine taking up valuable interior space.

[Faster]

Originally Posted by Bruan

Faster: "A well designed sailboat has an easy motion that is the combination of the righting moment of the ballast countered by the mass and inertia of the rig. When you remove the rig the boat has a very snappy motion that can be quite uncomfortable."

I read a similar comment on another site. The concept is easy to understand; the mast etc. acts as kind of a counterbalance to the ballast. But with the mast off, it seems the boat would be very stable and not rock much at all under ordinary circumstances. Under heavy weather I can see how it would roll then "snap" back quickly, but otherwise wouldn't it be VERY stable?

When you say "fishboat," what exactly do you mean? A working boat?

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Bruan

Yes, the boat is VERY stiff, but that doesn't inherently mean stable. A flattish hull section will react to waves but with the imbalance due to a missing rig it will correct overly quickly creating that "snappy" motion. It's not a real problem but can be uncomfortable.

Selecting a keel/CB type may allow you to mitigate part of this by removing the board as someone else suggested. This reduces the righting moment somewhat, and many k/CB designs do not have a centerboard trunk intruding on the accomodations. Also many K/CB designs are more wineglass shaped in section and will have kinder motion on a seaway.

By "fishboat" I was more thinking of converted gillnetters and trollers that are well known for see keeping qualities, and are available generally for pretty good prices. Many people have converted these boats into comfy cruisers by utilizing the space originally intended for fish holds.

Best of luck in your endeavours.

[pigslo]

You can buy a dedicated houseboat for 10,000.00
pigslo

[Jeff_H]

I saw something like what you were proposing last year in Oxford, Maryland. Someone had taken a Cal 25 and cut away the aft end of the cabin and cockpit to the coamings and built a nice looking pilot house and a raised powerboat style cockpit across the stern. What makes a Cal 25 particularly well suited for this purpose is its raised foredeck which makes for a very roomy forward cabin. Forward was the standard Vee berth and behind that (under the raised deck) was the head on starboard, and a hanging locker on port. The pilot house had a two person dinette that doubled as a nav station on port, and a galley that ran the most of the length of the starboard side of the pilot house and across the starboard third of the aft bulkhead, but stopped short of the forward bulkhead and was set up so that you could sit on the end of the counter and steer with what looked like a hinged out (or up) backrest. The boat had a newish looking 4 stroke Honda, my guess is that it was probably a 15 or 20 horsepower. I don't know whether the boat had its original rudder attached to the wheel steering or not. I think there was a second steering wheel in the cockpit, but I wouldn't swear to it.

Of course the key to such a modification is to get the boat to sit on her lines when you were done. This means careful layout of the weightier items going on board since you want to sit level fore and aft as well as athwartships when under way. I also think that his boat may also have anti-squat trim tabs.

Now then, as others have noted, a sailboat without a mast can have a very nasty motion. My old Folkboat had one of the sweetest motions that I have ever experienced but when she lost her mast, I could not move around the deck without crawling on hands and knees and holding on the whole way because the motion was so wickedly fast and unpredicatable. Of course the top hamper of a pilot house would slow the roll down a bit.

Good luck,
Jeff

[Bruan]

Originally Posted by sailingdog

If I can dig up a photo and make/model of the mini-trawler that a neighbor has down at the marina, I'll post it. The boat uses an outboard motor and gets very good fuel mileage as a result, and also has a fair bit more cabin space, since there is no engine taking up valuable interior space.

Thanks, I'd like to see that.

Bruce

[blt2ski]

Altho a new boat, not sure how long they have been made, "Ranger Tugs". There is one of these at my dock near Seattle Wa. I have seen these on trailers too. Mid 20' length, inboard diesels. Pretty good fuel mileage too. Not fast, but get you there.

Another boat, that has been built for yrs, but not in the size you want, is a Grand Banks. If you look them up, you will see what the Ranger tug looks like, and a good Trawler style disp hull for what you want to do.

This is what I would look for if in your shoes vs trying to convert a sailboat. Or as mentioned, the Mac Gregor sailboat, with the big engine.

marty