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adding roach

5K views 28 replies 15 participants last post by  okawbow 
#1 ·
If I am buying a new mainsail for a boat that originally had a mainsail with no roach, is it a good idea to buy a sail with some roach to try to improve performance?

This could make weatherhelm an issue (let's assume the boat is well balanced to begin with, just a little slow). Would the roach make a noticeable difference in weatherhelm? Would it make a noticeable difference in performance?

Why would a designer design a mainsail with no roach? Isn't it almost free performance?

Eric
 
#2 ·
Every PHRF boat that i have been on this year has a RACE main with MAX roach

The roach allways hits the backstay making it a PITA to tack in lighter air and even in heavy air the main takes a beating on every tack to get that last bit of performance


So i question the wisdom of allowing a roach that hits the backstay as i have seen a few accidents when it gets hung up
 
#10 ·
That is my boat in the avatar but not the boat I am talking about here. I am looking at an older 20 foot boat with a tiny mainsail and no raoch at all. The boat (if I buy it) is due for a main sail soon so while I am getting quotes I need to know if I should be looking at a sail with roach or without. The boat is known to be a little pokey so I figured I would ask. Every little bit helps.

And no, I don't race.

My current boat has a roach on the sail and it does get stuck on the boom topping lift on a close hauled tack but only in really light air, and still the boom always swings all the way by no matter what, so it's not a safety issue. Sail wear could be an issue I suppose.
 

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#7 · (Edited)
I question it on PHRF boats because once one guy has it everybody thinks they need it

Are fall series was on Sat and we had 3 races with say 30 tacks and jibes each so that was 90 times the main had to be pushed

I have seen two things happen

1. A crew member thinks the main is sheeted in but it is hung on backstay as carefull as they should be about keeping there head clear of the boom :eek: they were not and when another crew poped it through without warning :(

This resulted in a trip to the ER with a fairly serious head injury

2. The crew trying to force it through during a tack or jib loses there footing when it clears and they have nothing left to balance on

While nobody got hurt doing this i have seen many stumble and hit the deck
 
#8 ·
1. A crew member thinks the main is sheeted in but it is hung on backstay as carefull as they should be about keeping there head clear of the boom :eek: they were not and when another crew poped it through without warning :(

This resulted in a trip to the ER with a fairly serious head injury

2. The crew trying to force it through during a tack or jib loses there footing when it clears and they have nothing left to balance on
Ahh ok Thanks, crew accidents...

I was seeing something diffrent, like the boat broaching and stuff, you know...heeling etc.

I couldn't see that, because the main allways passes, even if stuck momentarily..

thank you.

Alex
 
#9 ·
I question it on PHRF boats because once one guy has it everybody thinks they need it

This is only going to be true if you are talking about a group of OD boats that are racing as a PHRF fleet (which your signature suggests) AND no one is actively managing the PHRF handicaps to adjust for changes in sail size.

Is this even a racing boat in question??
 
#11 · (Edited)
Thumbs..

The topping lift should be eased once you hoist the main. for one main reason, because it prevents the booom to descend, it creates excessive twist in the main, spilling the wind above..release the TL once you hoist the main, ok??

Now, for that little boat I don 't see the added value in doing it..but if you sail in low to moderate winds, yes..by all means get a little roach..makes the boat look better..now..if said roach is going to cost more than $150.00 forget about it.

Does it have a boom vang? traveler?.with roach you will need a few more tools, ok?
 
#12 ·
It has a traveler. I will have to check on boom vang but this can be added pretty easily as well AFAIK.

Alex, thanks for the excelent videos. You are my hero. All this time I thought the only mainsail control was the main sheet. (I sailed for the first time in July). I thought the outhaul just compensated for sail stretch as it aged. I thought the boom vang just keeps the boom from falling out of it's slot in the mast. I had no idea what a traveler might be for.

Thanks again. Eric
 
#13 ·
Nahhh..I am my kid's Hero...not yours....(and even that, only until he finds I am a loser:D :D )....

Hey, please, man, don't need to thank, really..I do this to keep me busy while away from home..when i am home you rarely see me here..and just making you happy makes my day..I'll drive to my hotel happier tonight..and my walk around the Rock Springs, WY walmart will be the counterclockwise tonight!!!

Remember to release the toping lift next time, ok??
 
#17 · (Edited)
The J24s in our area only USE class approved sails to get there 174 PHRF and get the same rating if they do a JAM race


PHRF # :rolleyes: we have two J105s one is and 81 and the other a 105

The boats i raced on this year with the roach problem are a Tartan 10,C&C 35 Mark I and a Tartan 372

All there race mains hit the backstay buy and easy 5"

Now is its faster BUT it is just a PITA for the crew to deal with
 
#18 ·
If by roach you mean a convex leach, that's easy to accomplish but the performance gains are minimal. Doesn't add much at the head, doesn't add much forward thrust. Does smoth out exiting air flow. You will need longer, better battens to hold the fabric out.

The greatest gains in roach are made at the sail top -- going from a pointy head to a squared-off or PowerHead. That's where the wind is strongest and where your present sail is least effective. Two full-length battens would do ya. But unless you crane out your backstays, you may catch. (Our Bucc18 uses a powerhead. It's nice.)

If you live in a light wind area, you might profit better by ordering a main with deeper draft and/or full-length battens. As I mentioned before, the trouble on that cute keeler is gonna be controlling the slot. I'd focus on getting your main and headsail sheeting and twisting just so. That'll increase drive more than a couple sqft of fabric on the trailing edge.:D
 
#21 ·
I would imagine it depends on how much roach. Look at the boat with the boom at the centerline and see how much roach you can add without the sail hitting the backstay. You might be surprised. If it over laps by an inch or so, that is not likely to cause any problems. You (or the sailmaker) can add chafe protection to the batten pockets for any overlap wear.
 
#24 ·
High in protein as well...just remember to cook thoroughly...I hate when they wiggle when you're trying to eat them. :) :eek:
 
#28 ·
This is where you talk to the sailmaker, and ask. If you have as said, a shallow roach, you can have the SM add enough such that the sail does NOT touch the back stay, added a bit of SA, helping a small amount granted in speed etc. Add a couple of full battens at the top, and you will have a better sailing boat.

I recently got a UK Tapedrive for my boat, I ended up with a main that overlaps by about 2" for 2' or so, a PITA for light winds as mentioned, but last saturday in 30+ knots, not issues.......wait a minute, I had a double reef in, so that was my problem for lack of hitting!:):):)

In the end, there is more than one way to skin said issue.

Marty
 
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