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post #11 of 63 Old 05-17-2009
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WOrst feature on a boat......hmmmmm.........

smackdaddy doing......no make that attempting to do a BFS!


Not what you were looking for?

Reality is, what is worst for me, is not worst for you! Along with what seems like a good idea, when perfected can be fun. BUT, for worst, I would be sharkskin/golfball dimpled hulls. Canting keels, once engineered etc correctly, and cost lowered.......they might be fun for us lower end players when the time comes!

Marty

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I drives me dinghy!
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post #12 of 63 Old 05-17-2009 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Yeah John! Quit being a troll!

I'm sorry, that's just funny.
From now on, I'm going to call it "a laterally mobile pendulum keel".

Some time ago, I saw a canting keel referred to as "swing" and didn't pay too much attention, but the word stuck and I often misuse it now. I should know better, as my own boat has a swing keel and I love it

As a curiosity: Alubat (Ovni maker) have fought against the term "centerboard" for their keel because people associate with dinghies and flimsy thin plywood boards. Anyway it is not a centerboard since it tilts up. Perhaps they also don't want to draw attention to others, say the British Southerly range, so they avoid saying "swing keel", they call it "tilting." Now, in a late version of their FAQ, I notice that the term "centreboard" slipped under the guard. What next?

Try this one, Smack: in one of your posts, sneak in a completely nonsensical nautical term and see if it ends up in one of my posts one day. Remember, English is not my first language, one can be quite gullible at times

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post #13 of 63 Old 05-17-2009
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Beneteau calls it a "lifting keel," which is appropriate because it has a fair amount of ballast. I have one and love it. But those canting keels seem to me to have demonstrated they are hazardous. The big difference is what happens in failure mode. With a lifting keel, failure usually means it won't retract or lower. This is not catastrophic. With a canting keel, failure mode seems to be falling off the boat, but even if it simply stopped being controlled, the usual result is a capsize. What an awful idea.
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post #14 of 63 Old 05-17-2009 Thread Starter
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Nautical language

Bring it on! I can feel the heat even before I post this...

Still, let's throw it in and see what comes back: How about nautical language?

To the novice, it is like learning Chinese. Having precise terms for unique fittings is one thing, but do we - honestly - need "port"; "galley"; "heads" and a few more?

They have historic origins, it is very well for the old salt to use them for bravado, but do they for instance contribute one iota to safety onboard? Or to efficiency?
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post #15 of 63 Old 05-17-2009
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Yes, much of the nautical terminology is designed to clarify and specify over what terrestrial language would do... Saying port and starboard leaves little doubt as to what side of the boat you're discussing, where left and right can be ambiguous, since it would depend on what direction you're facing.

Similarly, sheets, halyards, guys, downhauls, outhauls are all specific names for lines with specific functions—when you say to someone ease the main halyard, it specifically refers to the line that was used to hoist the mainsail and is attached to the head of the mainsail, and means you're requesting the luff tension be lowered or the sail be lowered depending on when you ask them to stop.

Yelling at someone to ease "that line over there..." really doesn't mean much and might get the job done, but also might result in disaster, if they think that the line over there is the wrong line... For instance, say you're turning downwind from closehauled and you tell them to "ease that line over there" referring to the main sheet...and they ease the outhaul instead.... on a multihull, that could well lead to user-induced capsize.

Using the proper language for a given discipline, whether it be rock climbing, hacking, medicine, or sailing, you reduce the chances of error, and simplify communication by giving greater clarity.
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Originally Posted by OsmundL View Post
Bring it on! I can feel the heat even before I post this...

Still, let's throw it in and see what comes back: How about nautical language?

To the novice, it is like learning Chinese. Having precise terms for unique fittings is one thing, but do we - honestly - need "port"; "galley"; "heads" and a few more?

They have historic origins, it is very well for the old salt to use them for bravado, but do they for instance contribute one iota to safety onboard? Or to efficiency?

Sailingdog

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her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

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post #16 of 63 Old 05-17-2009
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I LIKE that the corners of chutes are color coded...

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Yes, much of the nautical terminology is designed to clarify and specify over what terrestrial language would do... Saying port and starboard leaves little doubt as to what side of the boat you're discussing, where left and right can be ambiguous, since it would depend on what direction you're facing.

Similarly, sheets, halyards, guys, downhauls, outhauls are all specific names for lines with specific functions—when you say to someone ease the main halyard, it specifically refers to the line that was used to hoist the mainsail and is attached to the head of the mainsail, and means you're requesting the luff tension be lowered or the sail be lowered depending on when you ask them to stop.

Yelling at someone to ease "that line over there..." really doesn't mean much and might get the job done, but also might result in disaster, if they think that the line over there is the wrong line... For instance, say you're turning downwind from closehauled and you tell them to "ease that line over there" referring to the main sheet...and they ease the outhaul instead.... on a multihull, that could well lead to user-induced capsize.

Using the proper language for a given discipline, whether it be rock climbing, hacking, medicine, or sailing, you reduce the chances of error, and simplify communication by giving greater clarity.
that piston hanks ALWAYS open the same way, and that "bare off" always means the same thing.

I believe that historians will remind us that the common "sailing" language developed over many years as multi-national crews sought nomenclature they all understood.

I like to think when climbing that "belay on" means more than some has the climbing rope in their hands. It implies much more; a real anchor that can handle a 2000 pound impact. We need to be CLEAR.

It is all part of what they call "learning the ropes", and once you get the standard rigging down, you will be surprised how well it transfers from boat to boat.

(when asked how he reached the starting holds on a difficult rock climbing problem that clearly favored taller climbers - he was perhaps 5'5")

"Well, I just climb up to them."

by Joe Brown, English rock climber




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post #17 of 63 Old 05-17-2009 Thread Starter
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Quote:
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I believe that historians will remind us that the common "sailing" language developed over many years as multi-national crews sought nomenclature they all understood.
If only that were so...
Of course I expected this response, and I support a common technical language. What I ask is might it be cleaned up a little to avoid reinventing the wheel and actually speeding the learning for novices?

Nautical terms are international only in limited cases. Try sailing with the French or Russians. I have direct experience from a schizophrenic life at sea: as young, going out in small boats in Norway, then merchant navy for years during holidays; then sailing proper in Australia and now Norway, with several nationalities. Result: I have some terms imprinted in Norwegian and struggle to recall the English in a hurry; others were only learnt in English and I scrounge around to find the Norwegian. They are not at all "common" apart from the more obvious ones. Try "kryssholt" - it means "cleat" and I have a block there all the time.

I can see no earthly reason why "left" and "right" would be misunderstood. We don't need them in cars or on bikes - one knows which way is forward and hence where "right" is. And "Head"? At one time one did go to the head, but I'd love to see your female crew to so today.

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post #18 of 63 Old 05-17-2009
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Quote:
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I believe that historians will remind us that the common "sailing" language developed over many years as multi-national crews sought nomenclature they all understood.
OK - boom vang versus kicking strap. Anyone know the derivations?

Jack

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Left and right are relative terms, often based on the position of the person speaking. Port and starboard are absolute terms...with no ambiguity..... How many times have you said to someone, "It's on the right" and they'ver replied, "Your right or my right?" or you've had to say to them, "Your other right," because they were going the WRONG way.

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I can see no earthly reason why "left" and "right" would be misunderstood. We don't need them in cars or on bikes - one knows which way is forward and hence where "right" is. And "Head"? At one time one did go to the head, but I'd love to see your female crew to so today.

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a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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post #20 of 63 Old 05-17-2009
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B and R rigs coupled with roller furling mains. I though the whole point to get a high roach main that would not foul on the backstay.

Close second - travellers mounted on cockpit arches.

Really - I am not picking on any particular manufacturer.

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