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Old 11-24-2009
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Single part mono urethane Epifanes paint.. quesiton ,, thoughts

Goofing on line, looking at paint jobs. The pro Awlgrip jobs are the
best, it seems. That said, in my opinion, spending $5,000 dollars on
a topside paint job is kinda nuts. My opinion, just me. I have a friend who
did his topsides with the one part Epifanes monourethane. He rolled, and
tipped off. Yes, it is not as hard, or durable, or absolutely stunning as an
Awlgrip job, but I'm telling you, it looked real nice. Only cost him a few hundred for the whole process. He cleaned, degreased, wiped, sanded old paint. He rolled on two coats of primer, sanded after each coat. One finish coat, roll and tip. From 10 feet away, it looks sprayed on.

Am I missing something?

Thanks
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Old 11-24-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasper Windvane View Post
Am I missing something?
Thanks
Just the durability and resistance to abrasion... not that the 2 parts are totally free of those issues. I recently redid the hull stripes with single part, and so far it's standing up pretty good but I'm careful to avoid placing fenders where they'll "work" on the paint stripes.

btw - some years back we did a total awlgrip job (topsides and deck), doing all the work ourselves on a 40 footer and spent more than 5 grand... having it done for any reasonable sized boat will run even more I'd guess. A boat neighbour recently had an insurance claim from a hit&run.... 17K to fix/paint one side of a C&C 110.
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1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
Capt G E Ericson (from "The Cruel Sea" by Nicholas Monsarrat)
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Old 11-25-2009
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As we were discussing in another topic, what we have been using here in Alhandra, Portugal to paint our hulls (lots of UVs all year 'round) with great results is two component Polyurethane.

The key to a good paint job is always surface preparation and we DIYers usually go like this:

1- Removal of the old paint;
2- Surface repairs with epoxy
4- Surface rough smoothing
5- Degreasing (celulosic thinner, acetone, MEK, etc...)
6- 1 coat of epoxy primer
7- Surface smoothing with filler
8- Light/medium sanding (120 grit)
9- Degreasing (celulosic thinner, acetone, MEK, etc...)
10- 2nd coat of epoxy primer
11- Light sanding (Scotch Brite or 240 grit)
12- Degreasing (celulosic thinner, acetone, MEK, etc...)
13- 2 coats of polyurethane sprayed or rolled top coat. We usually apply the 2nd coat as soon as the first one starts to set (about 2 to 3 hours later) thus eliminating the need of sanding between top coats, which would remove precious paint...
14- Let dry and harden for a couple of days and wet paper sand and polish if required

On the deck we also use polyurethane 2 comp but we do our own anti skid, like this:

1- As above
2- As above
3- As above
4- As above
5- As above
6- As above
7- As above
8- As above
9- As above
10- As above
11- As above
12- As above
13- 1 coat of polyurethane top coat
14- Abundantly spread thin sand over the paint surfaces where you want to apply the anti skid treatment before the paint starts to set. We normally use UNUSED sand blasting clear white sand.
15- Let dry
16- Brush or blow away the excess sand
17- 2nd coat polyurethate top coat

You can regulate the "harshness" of your anti-skid either by applying extra coats of paint or by using thinner sand...

Regards!

Pedro

11- Blow away all the sand
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Last edited by pedcab; 11-25-2009 at 05:09 AM.
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Old 11-25-2009
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One question ,, If a sailor decides to use the two part paint, he does all the prep, with the proper prime etc.. on the day of the final painting, Is the contents of the two part paint mixed all at once? I was just reading that the trick is, paint fast, keep moving, one rolling, another tipping.
Does the two part paint come in equal sized cans? I have this picture of opening one can, opening the other, pouring them together, letting stand, a light stir, little thinner .. and the process starts.. Is this how it goes?
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You can/should only mix what you can apply within the "pot life" of the mixed paint. This is NOT usually on a can per can basis. When we did our 40 footer spraying Awlgrip we had one person spraying, and two others miixing as required. We generally mixed enough for two spray pots full, then as I was well into the second they would mix the next batch (which needed a certain time to 'sit' before use.. 15 minutes or so IIRC.

The cans are usually in the correct ratio, but there's more to it than that.. you mix the paint, the catalyst, and a specific reducer (different ones for rolling vs spraying, and for various conditions like humidity and temperature, etc). It is a bit of a science and care taken here (after much more care taken with prep) will go a long way to a great looking job in the end.

Rolling and tipping will go slower than spraying, so you need to mix quantities accordingly.
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Old 11-26-2009
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I think any way you look at it a good paint job is about 80 to 90% prep. If you're going to that trouble (and you should) why save a few bucks on a one part paint? Buy the best paint for a few more dollars and have a good hard finish that will last a lot longer. Interlux Perfection is by all accounts a good choice, but everybody has a favorite.
Brian
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Old 11-26-2009
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I agree on the prep .. I've painted one big old boat, used Imron. But that was long time ago, in the back of the boatyard, outside, and it was brutal. The weather was the biggest enemy. Let's face it, there is a reason the awlgrip jogs are done inside, for the most part. I got to watch a roll and tip job, two years back. The boat owner prepped, cleaned, prepped, taped off, .. then he and his wife roll and tipped. Took maybe one hour for the finish job to go on. It did not look as good as an awlgrip job, but ::.. it sure did look GOOD. He got a very good finish. He spent a couple hundred bucks, maybe. His wife painted on the boat name, he did a light sanding on the bottom, little ablative, and he went sailing. Another obstacle I face, and I'm sure many other boat owners, is that I must do everything myself. I have NO helper. I therefore, think long and hard about projects. Two part paint, with the mixing, thinning, set up, the set up at the boat, ladders, rolling and tipping .. One person doing this? Very difficult. I've always wondered what it would be like to have about five helpers. Would that be great !! A refinish paint job is one of the few projects that will give back value to an old boat, according to Don Casey. Casey, in one of the books I have here somewhere, writes that when the boat buyer shows up, and you tell him "she has a brand new main sail", he does not care. All the buyer looks at is the finish, the cosmetic. Later, as the mainsail blows out off of Nantucket, he looks at the mainsail. Ha ha ha ha ha .. That's boatn!
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Old 11-26-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasper Windvane View Post
I agree on the prep .. I've painted one big old boat, used Imron. But that was long time ago, in the back of the boatyard, outside, and it was brutal. The weather was the biggest enemy. Let's face it, there is a reason the awlgrip jogs are done inside, for the most part. I got to watch a roll and tip job, two years back. The boat owner prepped, cleaned, prepped, taped off, .. then he and his wife roll and tipped. Took maybe one hour for the finish job to go on. It did not look as good as an awlgrip job, but ::.. it sure did look GOOD. He got a very good finish. He spent a couple hundred bucks, maybe. His wife painted on the boat name, he did a light sanding on the bottom, little ablative, and he went sailing. Another obstacle I face, and I'm sure many other boat owners, is that I must do everything myself. I have NO helper. I therefore, think long and hard about projects. Two part paint, with the mixing, thinning, set up, the set up at the boat, ladders, rolling and tipping .. One person doing this? Very difficult. I've always wondered what it would be like to have about five helpers. Would that be great !! A refinish paint job is one of the few projects that will give back value to an old boat, according to Don Casey. Casey, in one of the books I have here somewhere, writes that when the boat buyer shows up, and you tell him "she has a brand new main sail", he does not care. All the buyer looks at is the finish, the cosmetic. Later, as the mainsail blows out off of Nantucket, he looks at the mainsail. Ha ha ha ha ha .. That's boatn!
There's nothing much in painting a boat all by yourself, really. I've doing just that ever since and so have my fellow sailors here in our sailing club. The trick is in not wanting to take the job to completion as fast as if you had help.
Be patient.
One day to sand, the other to fill, the next to prime, etc.

The most important thing is to have the entire operation well planed. It sucks to have 1L of expensive paint mixed and ready to apply when you realize you forgot to buy thinner, or rolls. Or to forget to check the weather and later have you work destroyed by the odd unforseen shower...

Another thing to keep in mind is to have a practical system of mixing paint in reasonable amounts, according to your own work speed: Syringes, wheighing scales, etc.. I normally mix paint up to a maximum of 500mL (which lasts me for about 1 hour of cautious rolling). When I need more, well, I just stop to take a smoke and have a look at my work from afar and mix a new bucket while I'm at it...

And, of course, the importance of proper tools can't be overlooked! For instance, it now takes me a couple of days with a proper professional line Bosch 150mm orbital sander to go through what I used to need a week with a 125mm Black and Decker "DIYer" toy sander...

As a matter of fact, I'm just finishing painting Fulô and, excuse me for the bragging, It´s looking great!
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Last edited by pedcab; 11-26-2009 at 09:41 AM.
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Old 11-26-2009
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Pedcab ,, I agree with most of what you wrote. Time.. take your time. My old old boss, way back, would say "don't bull it man". On the other hand, time is money. Unfortunately, I do not live across from the boatyard, and if my latest adventure actually goes, I will be a long long way from that boatyard. At $$, per night, at a local motel, for two weeks .. starts to add up. But, if I pay for the exterior job, get her launched, then I can sleep on board, for FREE [ owner/seller's dock ]. Then, I can take my time, and paint/sand/clean .. also, just an aside. Not sure exactly where you live, but in the northeast USA, Maine, you can't paint an exterior until at the very earliest May. Maybe middle of April with one part paint,, but it gets cold at night, and paint hates cold nights after warm days. PS.. your boat looks very nice.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasper Windvane View Post
Pedcab ,, I agree with most of what you wrote. Time.. take your time. My old old boss, way back, would say "don't bull it man". On the other hand, time is money. Unfortunately, I do not live across from the boatyard, and if my latest adventure actually goes, I will be a long long way from that boatyard. At $$, per night, at a local motel, for two weeks .. starts to add up. But, if I pay for the exterior job, get her launched, then I can sleep on board, for FREE [ owner/seller's dock ]. Then, I can take my time, and paint/sand/clean .. also, just an aside. Not sure exactly where you live, but in the northeast USA, Maine, you can't paint an exterior until at the very earliest May. Maybe middle of April with one part paint,, but it gets cold at night, and paint hates cold nights after warm days. PS.. your boat looks very nice.
Well, I must admit that none of those problems apply in my case and that I haven't really thought of that before...

I live as far as a 10minute drive from my swinging mooring (and the sailing club's slipway) and here in Portugal the weather allows us to repair our boats during most of the year...

Out of curiosity, if you care to Google Earth Alhandra-Portugal you'll even be able to see Fulô sitting at its mooring
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Last edited by pedcab; 11-26-2009 at 10:17 AM.
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