parallel sails? - Page 2 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum > Sailboat Design and Construction
 Not a Member? 


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #11  
Old 01-15-2010
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 393
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 12
jbarros is on a distinguished road
Ok, wow, now for the application question.

I'm looking at making a "mothership" rig to use to bring my kayak out to the (California Channel) Islands. the idea was to start with the clc sailrig ( Kayak & Canoe Sailing Rig: Ultra-Light, Easy to Assemble and Launch! ) or at least the ama's, except I'd really like to create a vessel which I could

a.) reef or drop sail
b.) detach the kayak from the rig while at sea, if I decided to anchor it somewhere where there wasn't a convenient beach, so I could paddle around.
c.) where the entire rig, including kayak is still cartopable
and of course, having a boat that I'll be building, play with weird sail designs and other ideas, just to see what works.

To make this as unburdonsome to the kayak as possible, I'm hoping to run all lines down the aka's, and basically give myself a control console. it's got a 10' beam, so I think it's wide enough to give me the clear channel I need. I'm also pondering if reefing is necessary, or if I could just use windsurfer sails and masts (with a mast step to hold them upright) and just turn them out of the wind to varying degrees to cut the effect of the wind.

This year it's just brainstorming, as I've not finished the kayak yet, let alone started on the ama's, but I thought it was an interesting design idea, and one which might be applicable for such a craft.

Thanks for all the info

-- James
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #12  
Old 01-15-2010
nickmerc's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: O'Fallon, MO
Posts: 563
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 6
nickmerc is on a distinguished road
You could still have a mother ship with onlt one mast. Just mount the mast step on one of the amas.

Or, you could modify a beach cat to be your mother ship.
________
DivineSmile cam

Last edited by nickmerc; 08-18-2011 at 05:51 AM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #13  
Old 01-15-2010
mitiempo's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Victoria B.C. Canada
Posts: 6,978
Thanks: 0
Thanked 61 Times in 52 Posts
Rep Power: 6
mitiempo will become famous soon enough
I paddled a Feathercraft in Baja twice and some days wished for a sail. Here are a few examples. The one I like is the first on the Nautiraid. But the second one looks cool.
Attached Thumbnails
parallel sails?-sailing-kayak-45526.jpg   parallel sails?-gallery_19_hr.jpg   parallel sails?-spinnaker-243.jpg  
__________________
Brian
Living aboard in Victoria Harbour

Last edited by mitiempo; 01-15-2010 at 05:39 PM. Reason: add
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #14  
Old 01-15-2010
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 393
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 12
jbarros is on a distinguished road
There are a number of awesome kayak sails, (your awesomeness may vary) I'm looking to minimize my impact on the kayak itself, which eliminates most of them, and I'd like it to sail well, even upwind, which eliminates all the rest.

What I was looking at with the clc kit was similar to modifying a beach cat, perhaps just taking one of those apart would be the hot tip, although I'm curious about how much work it would take to cartop one.

Thanks.

-- James
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #15  
Old 01-15-2010
mitiempo's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Victoria B.C. Canada
Posts: 6,978
Thanks: 0
Thanked 61 Times in 52 Posts
Rep Power: 6
mitiempo will become famous soon enough
I see. You don't want to paddle at all.
__________________
Brian
Living aboard in Victoria Harbour
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #16  
Old 01-15-2010
nickmerc's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: O'Fallon, MO
Posts: 563
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 6
nickmerc is on a distinguished road
You will probably not be able to cartop a beach cat. I used to tow my Hobie 16 with a VW Passat. The boat was wider than my car. They are also unwiedly to move around solo when not in the water.
________
Volcano Vaporizer

Last edited by nickmerc; 08-18-2011 at 05:51 AM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #17  
Old 01-15-2010
mitiempo's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Victoria B.C. Canada
Posts: 6,978
Thanks: 0
Thanked 61 Times in 52 Posts
Rep Power: 6
mitiempo will become famous soon enough
If the amas are removeable it should be possible. That would leave you with a kayak and two smaller hulls. And a mast.
__________________
Brian
Living aboard in Victoria Harbour
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #18  
Old 01-15-2010
AdamLein's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Coquitlam, BC
Posts: 1,866
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 7
AdamLein will become famous soon enough
tager: I looked up DDWFTTW and it looks like they're not sailing. i.e. they are propelled neither by an air drag force (downwind sailing) nor by lift forces (upwind sailing). Instead they have an air turbine powering either wheels (for land vehicles) or a propeller.

I'm think it's impossible to sail dead downwind faster than the wind, which means that going DDW in a trifoiler you're not close hauled, which means that your argument - that there should be some angle at which the apparent wind is abeam - still holds.
__________________
s/v Essorant
1972 Catalina 27
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #19  
Old 01-15-2010
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Gloucester, MA
Posts: 584
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 5
klem is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamLein View Post
I'm think it's impossible to sail dead downwind faster than the wind, which means that going DDW in a trifoiler you're not close hauled, which means that your argument - that there should be some angle at which the apparent wind is abeam - still holds.
This is essentially correct. It also describes the interesting shape of the sail polar diagram of these really fast boats.

When sailing dead downwind, you are using the drag of the sails in the air and no lift is being generated (I am ignoring unstayed masts where the sails can be let out further than perpendicular). Therefore, even with infinite drag (roughly proportional to sail area), you still can't outrun the wind. On other points of sail, you use lift rather than drag which allows you to sail faster than the true wind speed. In addition, since you are not pointing in the same direction as the wind, the apparent wind moves forward which explains why the boats always seem to be close hauled. Since these boats are so fast broad reaching, they will tack downwind because it is much faster than running. To see why this is the case given the polar diagram, take a ruler and hold it perpendicular to the true wind direction and slide it in towards the center until you hit the line. On these fast boats, you will hit two points first for going with the wind which correspond to broad reaching on each tack.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #20  
Old 01-15-2010
mitiempo's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Victoria B.C. Canada
Posts: 6,978
Thanks: 0
Thanked 61 Times in 52 Posts
Rep Power: 6
mitiempo will become famous soon enough
That's right. They start broad reaching and as they pick up speed the apparent wind moves forward of the beam. The tri-foilers move through this stage quickly. The faster they go the more close hauled they are. They tack downwind and even though they cover a greater distance their vmg is better. The tri-foilers in the video never slow down enough for the apparent wind to come aft even when changing direction as they lose very little speed.
__________________
Brian
Living aboard in Victoria Harbour
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Yawl Info Needed sailortonyb1 Boat Review and Purchase Forum 5 01-18-2006 04:51 AM
The Balance of Hull and Sails Steve Colgate Learning to Sail Articles 0 05-25-2000 08:00 PM
The Balance of Hull and Sails Steve Colgate Seamanship Articles 0 05-25-2000 08:00 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:19 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012