parallel sails? - Page 2 - SailNet Community
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #11 of 24 Old 01-15-2010 Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 393
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 13
 
Ok, wow, now for the application question.

I'm looking at making a "mothership" rig to use to bring my kayak out to the (California Channel) Islands. the idea was to start with the clc sailrig ( Kayak & Canoe Sailing Rig: Ultra-Light, Easy to Assemble and Launch! ) or at least the ama's, except I'd really like to create a vessel which I could

a.) reef or drop sail
b.) detach the kayak from the rig while at sea, if I decided to anchor it somewhere where there wasn't a convenient beach, so I could paddle around.
c.) where the entire rig, including kayak is still cartopable
and of course, having a boat that I'll be building, play with weird sail designs and other ideas, just to see what works.

To make this as unburdonsome to the kayak as possible, I'm hoping to run all lines down the aka's, and basically give myself a control console. it's got a 10' beam, so I think it's wide enough to give me the clear channel I need. I'm also pondering if reefing is necessary, or if I could just use windsurfer sails and masts (with a mast step to hold them upright) and just turn them out of the wind to varying degrees to cut the effect of the wind.

This year it's just brainstorming, as I've not finished the kayak yet, let alone started on the ama's, but I thought it was an interesting design idea, and one which might be applicable for such a craft.

Thanks for all the info

-- James
jbarros is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #12 of 24 Old 01-15-2010
Senior Member
 
nickmerc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: O'Fallon, MO
Posts: 563
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 7
 
You could still have a mother ship with onlt one mast. Just mount the mast step on one of the amas.

Or, you could modify a beach cat to be your mother ship.
________
DivineSmile cam

Last edited by nickmerc; 08-18-2011 at 05:51 AM.
nickmerc is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #13 of 24 Old 01-15-2010
Senior Member
 
mitiempo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Victoria B.C. Canada
Posts: 7,487
Thanks: 0
Thanked 94 Times in 85 Posts
Rep Power: 8
   
I paddled a Feathercraft in Baja twice and some days wished for a sail. Here are a few examples. The one I like is the first on the Nautiraid. But the second one looks cool.
Attached Thumbnails
sailing-kayak-45526.jpg   gallery_19_hr.jpg   spinnaker-243.jpg  

Brian
Living aboard in Victoria Harbour

Last edited by mitiempo; 01-15-2010 at 05:39 PM. Reason: add
mitiempo is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #14 of 24 Old 01-15-2010 Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 393
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 13
 
There are a number of awesome kayak sails, (your awesomeness may vary) I'm looking to minimize my impact on the kayak itself, which eliminates most of them, and I'd like it to sail well, even upwind, which eliminates all the rest.

What I was looking at with the clc kit was similar to modifying a beach cat, perhaps just taking one of those apart would be the hot tip, although I'm curious about how much work it would take to cartop one.

Thanks.

-- James
jbarros is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #15 of 24 Old 01-15-2010
Senior Member
 
mitiempo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Victoria B.C. Canada
Posts: 7,487
Thanks: 0
Thanked 94 Times in 85 Posts
Rep Power: 8
   
I see. You don't want to paddle at all.

Brian
Living aboard in Victoria Harbour
mitiempo is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #16 of 24 Old 01-15-2010
Senior Member
 
nickmerc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: O'Fallon, MO
Posts: 563
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 7
 
You will probably not be able to cartop a beach cat. I used to tow my Hobie 16 with a VW Passat. The boat was wider than my car. They are also unwiedly to move around solo when not in the water.
________
Volcano Vaporizer

Last edited by nickmerc; 08-18-2011 at 05:51 AM.
nickmerc is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #17 of 24 Old 01-15-2010
Senior Member
 
mitiempo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Victoria B.C. Canada
Posts: 7,487
Thanks: 0
Thanked 94 Times in 85 Posts
Rep Power: 8
   
If the amas are removeable it should be possible. That would leave you with a kayak and two smaller hulls. And a mast.

Brian
Living aboard in Victoria Harbour
mitiempo is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #18 of 24 Old 01-15-2010
Senior Member
 
AdamLein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: SF Bay area
Posts: 1,914
Thanks: 5
Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts
Rep Power: 8
 
tager: I looked up DDWFTTW and it looks like they're not sailing. i.e. they are propelled neither by an air drag force (downwind sailing) nor by lift forces (upwind sailing). Instead they have an air turbine powering either wheels (for land vehicles) or a propeller.

I'm think it's impossible to sail dead downwind faster than the wind, which means that going DDW in a trifoiler you're not close hauled, which means that your argument - that there should be some angle at which the apparent wind is abeam - still holds.

s/v Laelia - 1978 Pearson 365 ketch
s/v Essorant - 1972 Catalina 27
AdamLein is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #19 of 24 Old 01-15-2010
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Gloucester, MA
Posts: 586
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 6
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamLein View Post
I'm think it's impossible to sail dead downwind faster than the wind, which means that going DDW in a trifoiler you're not close hauled, which means that your argument - that there should be some angle at which the apparent wind is abeam - still holds.
This is essentially correct. It also describes the interesting shape of the sail polar diagram of these really fast boats.

When sailing dead downwind, you are using the drag of the sails in the air and no lift is being generated (I am ignoring unstayed masts where the sails can be let out further than perpendicular). Therefore, even with infinite drag (roughly proportional to sail area), you still can't outrun the wind. On other points of sail, you use lift rather than drag which allows you to sail faster than the true wind speed. In addition, since you are not pointing in the same direction as the wind, the apparent wind moves forward which explains why the boats always seem to be close hauled. Since these boats are so fast broad reaching, they will tack downwind because it is much faster than running. To see why this is the case given the polar diagram, take a ruler and hold it perpendicular to the true wind direction and slide it in towards the center until you hit the line. On these fast boats, you will hit two points first for going with the wind which correspond to broad reaching on each tack.
klem is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #20 of 24 Old 01-15-2010
Senior Member
 
mitiempo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Victoria B.C. Canada
Posts: 7,487
Thanks: 0
Thanked 94 Times in 85 Posts
Rep Power: 8
   
That's right. They start broad reaching and as they pick up speed the apparent wind moves forward of the beam. The tri-foilers move through this stage quickly. The faster they go the more close hauled they are. They tack downwind and even though they cover a greater distance their vmg is better. The tri-foilers in the video never slow down enough for the apparent wind to come aft even when changing direction as they lose very little speed.

Brian
Living aboard in Victoria Harbour
mitiempo is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Yawl Info Needed sailortonyb1 Boat Review and Purchase Forum 5 01-18-2006 04:51 AM
The Balance of Hull and Sails Steve Colgate Learning to Sail Articles 0 05-25-2000 08:00 PM
The Balance of Hull and Sails Steve Colgate Seamanship Articles 0 05-25-2000 08:00 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome