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post #11 of 21 Old 02-13-2011
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lead mines

Mini transats are monohulls, some have ballast some have canting keels all are less than 23 feet. They cross the Atlantic often with solo crew. often do 16-20 knots.

Personal attack deleted

Last edited by Jeff_H; 02-14-2011 at 11:32 AM. Reason: Personal attack deleted
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post #12 of 21 Old 02-15-2011
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That little gem of Bob Perry's must be some kind of rocket!

With all this creative modernity I feel compelled to retaliate in some way, however. Someone needs to speak up for the old ways. In this 1888 photo of ELF racing off Marblehead you will see an effective method of compensating for a burdensome keel. The photo is from a collection at MIT. This year, on May 21st ELF will be racing again.... from Annapolis to her home port at the Chesapeake Bay Maritime Museum in St. Michaels.


Never sail closer to the wind in degrees than your age

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post #13 of 21 Old 02-15-2011
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Please clarify what you mean by a burdensome keel.... Its not a term that I am familiar with. However if you are referring to my reference to a burdensome hull, I would like to suggest that we may be using the term 'burdensome' in different senses of the word.

I am using the term 'burdensome' in the traditional yacht design sense of the word. From a yacht design standpoint, a 'burdensome hull' is a hull which has a large capacity for carrying weight or volume. It is a little different than a heavy displacement hullform, in that some of these burdensome hullforms were evolved to carry large volumes of comparatively low density material. A classic example of a burdensome hull vs a less burdensome hull, might be comparing a cargo schooner like Sterling Hayden's Wanderer vs the Pilot schooners like the George Steers.

That is a great picture of Elf. I have seen her around the Bay and she takes her my breath away with her beauty. That picture illustrates one of the points that I was trying to make, i.e. when you have a boat with a lot of drag (and frankly Elf does not have a huge amount of drag for her length and era, and her keel approaches being a fin keel she has so much cut away forward and such a sharply raked rudder post) it takes a lot of sail area to move it, and when you add an inefficient sail plan to the mix of high drag, the sail area gets enormous by any standard. Sure is lovely though.....


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Curmudgeon at Large- and rhinestone in the rough, sailing my Farr 11.6 on the Chesapeake Bay

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post #14 of 21 Old 02-15-2011
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Jeff...I guess I misused the term burdensome. I meant a full keel with a huge wetted surface as contrasted with modern fin keels with low wetted surface. You might say burdensome as far as drag is concerned. This is what my keel looks like. The iron has smushed crabs in the Chesapeake, carved long furrows in sandbars and mudflats in New England and left scars on ledges in Maine. There's been some vice versa with the latter, but luckily nothing serious.



About ELF... Here is a description of the coming event in May:

"This event is being organized by the Classic Yacht Restoration Guild to recreate the sensibilities of yacht racing of the 1880’s when the races began on shore, included the row to the boat on mooring or anchor, making sail and reversing the process at the finish, in this case signing the race log at the Tolchester Bandstand on the grounds of the Chesapeake Bay Maritime Museum."

In the photo below my 33 ft schooner is dwarfed by the rig in 35 ft ELF.


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post #15 of 21 Old 02-16-2011
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Fish,

I think that we have met on several occasions. If I am not mistaken your schooner was at Bert Jabins for a while. I have stopped by and chatted on several different occasions as you were replacing some of your planks.

Regards,
Jeff


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Curmudgeon at Large- and rhinestone in the rough, sailing my Farr 11.6 on the Chesapeake Bay
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post #16 of 21 Old 02-16-2011
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Jeff... neither my boat nor I have ever been to Bert Jabins. It would be a pleasure to catch up with you some time, however. I have enjoyed reading your many informative posts. If you can make it up to the Maine Boat Builders Show next month, look me up at the American Schooner Association booth. Here's my boat name...



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post #17 of 21 Old 02-16-2011
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Thank you for the kind words. I would enjoy meeting you as well. While I have owned frozen-snot boats for the past 30 years, in years past, I owned and restored my share of worm catchers. (Folkboat, Stadel Pilot Class Cutter (not to be mistaken for the S&S Pilot), and a wooden Okay dinghy).

I wish I was able to get up to the Maine Boat Builder show but alas real life intrudes.

Cheers,
Jeff


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Curmudgeon at Large- and rhinestone in the rough, sailing my Farr 11.6 on the Chesapeake Bay
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post #18 of 21 Old 04-30-2011
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I have to admit that I'm a sucker for a pretty gaff rigger....and that little Bob Perry design above is a pretty picture, indeed!! Can't say I understand why the fin keel on a gaffer...but I guess why not?

Gaff rigs are actually VERY efficient on points of sail from run to beam reach, then they start losing their efficiency from close reach on up...to downright lousy close-hauled. Seems that little beauty above might get a little squirrely close-hauled with the combination of the gaff AND tbe fin keel. But who am I to argue with Bob Perry? I see that his sail plan for her is pretty High Aspect....maybe that will make her more weatherly (at least as weatherly as gaffer can get, anyway).

Good work, Bob Perry !!! I wonder if she's sailing yet.

"...and a star to steer her by."
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post #19 of 21 Old 05-01-2011
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restoring the boat i learned on.... back when i was 7


The Gossips of Rivertown: The Sloop Eleanor

i love gaff rigged sailboats...


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formosa 41, cruising tropics


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post #20 of 21 Old 05-03-2011
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Part of why we enjoy Sailboats is the emotional appeal. Gaff rigs have it in spades.
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