Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat - Page 101 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum > Sailboat Design and Construction
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree245Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1001  
Old 07-06-2013
smackdaddy's Avatar
Last Man Standing
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 12,919
Thanks: 79
Thanked 71 Times in 65 Posts
Rep Power: 8
smackdaddy is a jewel in the rough smackdaddy is a jewel in the rough smackdaddy is a jewel in the rough
Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
Bear in mind that this is advice from someone who has never built a boat never cruised offshore, never lived aboard in a cold climate, and never got off the treadmill, but who has stated that it is immoral for anyone to be allowed to do so (on cruising.stuffiminto.com) who's intention is to throw roadblocks in your way should you try. Its kinda like an illiterate hillbilly giving advice on rocket science.
You can judge the quality of advice from what it has done for the person offering it.
So tell us Smack, how much offshore cruising ,full time, have you done. None? I thought so!
No off-shore, full-time cruising. You're absolutely right. Just some off-shore racing and deliveries.

But see, Brent, that's just it. I'm a"Cruiser Wannabe" as you call them, i.e. - your potential customer. And that makes me an absolute expert. An expert in terms of listening to your message, doing a bit of research, and deciding whether or not I believe you enough to give you my money in order to get me on the water fast and cheap - or to give it to someone else who's faster and cheaper, and more importantly, actually honest.

I obviously chose the latter.

You're not being honest, Brent. That's the problem. That's why I continue hammering on you...even as I say I respect some of the stuff you do.

Look, I'll make it very easy for you prove me wrong...here is a link to every post I've ever made on stuff (a site I actually like):

Smack's Posts on Stuff

Provide a link to the post where I (see the red part below)...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
Bear in mind that this is advice from someone who has never built a boat never cruised offshore, never lived aboard in a cold climate, and never got off the treadmill, but who has stated that it is immoral for anyone to be allowed to do so (on cruising.stuffiminto.com)
I'll wait.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

S/V Dawn Treader - 1989 Hunter Legend 40

Last edited by smackdaddy; 07-06-2013 at 02:27 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #1002  
Old 07-06-2013
grumpy old man
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,514
Thanks: 1
Thanked 70 Times in 66 Posts
Rep Power: 4
bobperry will become famous soon enough
Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

"Immoral"?
Oh my.
__________________
Please visit my blog. It's fun to read.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Bob's Blog ....


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #1003  
Old 07-06-2013
smackdaddy's Avatar
Last Man Standing
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 12,919
Thanks: 79
Thanked 71 Times in 65 Posts
Rep Power: 8
smackdaddy is a jewel in the rough smackdaddy is a jewel in the rough smackdaddy is a jewel in the rough
Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
This is happy!
+1.

That deserves a big "yeehaw!" She's a beauty Bob.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

S/V Dawn Treader - 1989 Hunter Legend 40
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #1004  
Old 07-06-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 272
Thanks: 1
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 4
jak3b is on a distinguished road
Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Here a woodie thats gone thru the NW passage, imagine that.
Teleport Expeditions - Chris Bray & Jess Taunton
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #1005  
Old 07-06-2013
grumpy old man
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,514
Thanks: 1
Thanked 70 Times in 66 Posts
Rep Power: 4
bobperry will become famous soon enough
Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Thanks Smackers:
She is a peach and we have matching hats. We did some crabbing yesterday and she likes crab too. Likes salmon, likes crab, goes to softball games with me, what more could you ask of a gal. I can't wait to get her sailing.
copacabana and smackdaddy like this.
__________________
Please visit my blog. It's fun to read.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Bob's Blog ....


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #1006  
Old 07-06-2013
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 9
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
Gustafson78 is on a distinguished road
Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Ok, that's the funny part. This guy had plenty of money and wanted a new boat but he loved his old boat. I would eventually design him a new custom boat a few years later. He just wanted to do something to upgrade his Cheoy Lee, give it a present.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #1007  
Old 07-06-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: new england
Posts: 1,598
Thanks: 31
Thanked 24 Times in 21 Posts
Rep Power: 2
outbound is on a distinguished road
Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Brent- one(just one there are a host of others) of the reasons you keep getting hammered on this thread is the audience reading it are fairly experienced and educated about the basics of boat construction and the sailing life. I've been at it for over 30 years. I'm probably one of the least experienced on this thread but have many thousands of miles off the shelf. I've done blue water in metal, wood, wood epoxy, glass, cored hulls. I've yet to sail concrete and hope not to.
It's evident a boat that is fast, goes to weather well and is durable and able to be maintained in the far flung world allows one to voyage in confidence. My newly constructed boat was built to the highest construction standards. For you to say new grp boats are not as well built as older boats is offensive , untrue and reflects only on your bias and ignorance . It is a pleasure to enjoy the speed, weatherliness, and strength of my vessel under me. To know it is very unlikely I will face the risks you invoke due to your poorly performing boat and poor seamanship. Given the impact resistance of my hull and the watertight bulk head 7' aft of the bow should something untoward occur we are prepared. As I stated before I believe steel is a viable material for boat construction but I find your statements only serve to send a prospective voyager running away from this material. To know that by looking at the 96h gribs and knowing I can avoid weather is reassuring. To know and have seen the earlier hulls of my boat looking beautiful and being sound with minimal effort after years of continuous voyaging give peace of mind. To not be worried about rust, work hardening, electrolysis is a blessing. Please let's talk about Wolfie's boat. Tells hear from Bob and Jeff. I want to learn something not be misinformed.
smackdaddy and bobperry like this.
__________________
s/v Hippocampus
Outbound 46

Last edited by outbound; 07-06-2013 at 06:11 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #1008  
Old 07-06-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 2,297
Thanks: 19
Thanked 30 Times in 29 Posts
Rep Power: 3
Brent Swain is on a distinguished road
Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Older fg boats vs new is a generalization. Any new boat built from scratch can be far better built than stock boats, but most new boats are far more poorly built than older FG boats, built when materials and labour were cheaper. Given the current cost of materials, such a boat would be extremely expensive. A freind many years ago, priced the cost of fibreglassing materials for a Bristol chanel cutter, Ater being given a quote of $12,000 for hull and decks, he watched me pull a 31ft hull, decks, cabin, wheelhouse, keels, rudder and skeg together in a couple of weeks,for $3500. Then, considering the cost of deck hardware for a fibreglass boat vs $1 a pound for the stainless to do it on a steel boat, he walked away from that project, and has been building steel boats ever since. The price gap is still the same, or greater.
No , I dont think you can avoid the "bad seamanship" of happening to run into Fukashima debris on a foggy night. Plastic under you doesn't automatically make you "luckier".
My boats are fast, go to windward well, and make good passage times. They have often outsailed fibreglass boats they were not supposed to outsail, including Beneteaus. Their strength has been proven beyond all reasonable doubt, over the last 32 years. There is no point in waterproof bulkheads, as there is little if any chance of punching a hole in 3/16th plate on a 36 footer. They have also proven that, with good initial preparation, planning and painting ,maintenance can be reduced to less that of a fibreglass boat undergoing hard , heavy full time use. Nothing breaks, pulls loose, or leaks in welded down gear, unlike with bolted down gear on fibreglass.
If my clients wanted a fibreglass boat, they would have bought a fibreglas boat . Many have, then decided to upgrade to steel. It is no secret to anyone sniffing around boats, that they are available for a fraction the cost of materials, in any size shape and a huge variety of designs. So why would anyone want to pay someone many times the cost of a boat, or decades of cruising funds, for mere drawings of a plastic boat, when so many real boats are availabe so cheap? All my clients know that. They just dont want to risk lives and that of their families, in a plastic boat, which couldn't survive a collision, unharmed, with a large piece of Fukashima debris, like a dock or wreck. Better to have your hull bounce off, unharmed, that to have it stowed in and end up relying on a bulkhead to keep you afloat, in mid ocean. After a long and thorough look at the boat market, they have concluded that the only way to get what they want, and in steel, is to build from scratch. Relatively good plastic boats are a dime a dozen. Designers in that field are currently the equivalent of people selling ice to Greenlanders. Good steel boats are rare around here. For anyone wanting one which doesn't take forever to build , one which uses the most modern methods, I have no competition. Most commercially built sailboats around here are 10 guage plate, right down to the bottom of the keel, painted one side only, zero paint inside, welded one side only, and that weld mostly ground off.
Most of my boats are 3/16th hull plate 1/8th decks, cabin, cockpit, and wheelhouse, 1/4 inch keel sides, half inch leading edges, and half inch bottomplate, welded both sides, cold galvanized wheelabraded and primed, 5 coats of epoxy tar on the outside, three coats of epoxy tar inside, sprayfoamed , and all outside corners trimed with stainless, reducing maintenance by over 80%
You just wont find a commercially built boat around here built to those standards. If anyone did , it would be priced far beyond the means of most cruisers. For a home builder it means a bit of extra time and expense, their own time. For a commercial builder, fully welded, a good paint job inside and out, stainless trim, extra steel thickness in important areas, etc, would mean bankrupcy, and no credit given to him by customers, who have no comprehension of the importance of such matters.
__________________
Brent Swain, Boat designer, Builder, and author of "Origami Metal Boatbuilding"

Last edited by Brent Swain; 07-06-2013 at 09:37 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
The Following User Says Thank You to Brent Swain For This Useful Post:
Jeff_H (07-06-2013)
  #1009  
Old 07-06-2013
grumpy old man
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,514
Thanks: 1
Thanked 70 Times in 66 Posts
Rep Power: 4
bobperry will become famous soon enough
Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Brent:
We have heard it ad nauseum. You forgot to ad that your boats are not very pretty. They look like the dog's breakfast. And "fast"? I'm not sure what measurements you are using. How about posting some polars for your boats? If you want to post passage times then go ahead but any intelligent sailor knows there are far too many variables involved to use that to judge design quality and far too many subjective "selections" not to mention your own made up facts. One the should be pointed out is this: Did the other boat know they were in a "race"?

Would you care to disuss your idea of fast measured again this boat that has been cruising for the last ten years? I can offer many. But here are three.

Here are three boats that have thousands of miles cruing under them. Nobody died. And, if I may say so myself they are handsome looking vessels.

You see Brent, when you get so defensive, angry and intolerant it makes me wonder what you are afraid of.

I know, I know. Don't end a sentence in a preposition.

I should add: the blue boat in the images was recently bought by an Aussie, professional mega yacht skipper. This guy know boats inside and out and he bought my boat as his home and cruising boat.
Attached Thumbnails
Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat-fr-chicken-sp.jpg   Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat-mobisle.jpg   Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat-capaz.jpg  
__________________
Please visit my blog. It's fun to read.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Bob's Blog ....


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by bobperry; 07-06-2013 at 09:43 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #1010  
Old 07-06-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 2,297
Thanks: 19
Thanked 30 Times in 29 Posts
Rep Power: 3
Brent Swain is on a distinguished road
Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Yes you can go thru the NW passage in a woodie, with a lot more nervousness. That doesn't make it a good idea. When Winston sailed Dove 3 thru in the 90's, coast guard friends tell me there was a lot more ice back then.Now they tell me they have gone to 80 degrees north without finding any. There is a big diference between having to avoid ice, and having to look for rare ice for a photo op.
__________________
Brent Swain, Boat designer, Builder, and author of "Origami Metal Boatbuilding"
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bob Perry's Tragic Loss smackdaddy General Discussion (sailing related) 16 07-09-2013 10:57 AM
What's your dream boat? dovetailnj General Discussion (sailing related) 58 07-08-2013 12:48 PM
What's your dream boat??? DavidB.UK General Discussion (sailing related) 4 06-22-2013 04:06 PM
Perry's new Sunday blog bobperry General Discussion (sailing related) 12 11-07-2011 06:05 PM
A boat dream! pjboots Boat Review and Purchase Forum 28 03-22-2007 03:10 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:52 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012