Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat - Page 104 - SailNet Community
 245Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1031 of 1155 Old 07-07-2013
sailing soon
 
mark2gmtrans's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 813
Thanks: 2
Thanked 30 Times in 30 Posts
Rep Power: 3
 
Send a message via Yahoo to mark2gmtrans
Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
Older fg boats vs new is a generalization. Any new boat built from scratch can be far better built than stock boats, but most new boats are far more poorly built than older FG boats, built when materials and labour were cheaper. Given the current cost of materials, such a boat would be extremely expensive. A freind many years ago, priced the cost of fibreglassing materials for a Bristol chanel cutter, Ater being given a quote of $12,000 for hull and decks, he watched me pull a 31ft hull, decks, cabin, wheelhouse, keels, rudder and skeg together in a couple of weeks,for $3500. Then, considering the cost of deck hardware for a fibreglass boat vs $1 a pound for the stainless to do it on a steel boat, he walked away from that project, and has been building steel boats ever since. The price gap is still the same, or greater.
No , I dont think you can avoid the "bad seamanship" of happening to run into Fukashima debris on a foggy night. Plastic under you doesn't automatically make you "luckier".
My boats are fast, go to windward well, and make good passage times. They have often outsailed fibreglass boats they were not supposed to outsail, including Beneteaus. Their strength has been proven beyond all reasonable doubt, over the last 32 years. There is no point in waterproof bulkheads, as there is little if any chance of punching a hole in 3/16th plate on a 36 footer. They have also proven that, with good initial preparation, planning and painting ,maintenance can be reduced to less that of a fibreglass boat undergoing hard , heavy full time use. Nothing breaks, pulls loose, or leaks in welded down gear, unlike with bolted down gear on fibreglass.
If my clients wanted a fibreglass boat, they would have bought a fibreglas boat . Many have, then decided to upgrade to steel. It is no secret to anyone sniffing around boats, that they are available for a fraction the cost of materials, in any size shape and a huge variety of designs. So why would anyone want to pay someone many times the cost of a boat, or decades of cruising funds, for mere drawings of a plastic boat, when so many real boats are availabe so cheap? All my clients know that. They just dont want to risk lives and that of their families, in a plastic boat, which couldn't survive a collision, unharmed, with a large piece of Fukashima debris, like a dock or wreck. Better to have your hull bounce off, unharmed, that to have it stowed in and end up relying on a bulkhead to keep you afloat, in mid ocean. After a long and thorough look at the boat market, they have concluded that the only way to get what they want, and in steel, is to build from scratch. Relatively good plastic boats are a dime a dozen. Designers in that field are currently the equivalent of people selling ice to Greenlanders. Good steel boats are rare around here. For anyone wanting one which doesn't take forever to build , one which uses the most modern methods, I have no competition. Most commercially built sailboats around here are 10 guage plate, right down to the bottom of the keel, painted one side only, zero paint inside, welded one side only, and that weld mostly ground off.
Most of my boats are 3/16th hull plate 1/8th decks, cabin, cockpit, and wheelhouse, 1/4 inch keel sides, half inch leading edges, and half inch bottomplate, welded both sides, cold galvanized wheelabraded and primed, 5 coats of epoxy tar on the outside, three coats of epoxy tar inside, sprayfoamed , and all outside corners trimed with stainless, reducing maintenance by over 80%
You just wont find a commercially built boat around here built to those standards. If anyone did , it would be priced far beyond the means of most cruisers. For a home builder it means a bit of extra time and expense, their own time. For a commercial builder, fully welded, a good paint job inside and out, stainless trim, extra steel thickness in important areas, etc, would mean bankrupcy, and no credit given to him by customers, who have no comprehension of the importance of such matters.
This metal boat had no watertight bulkheads, and the arrogant designers also declared it to be the safest boat every built. In fact one of them is purported to claim boldly that "She cannot be sunk, even GOD cannot sink her".


It is good to learn from your mistakes, but much better to learn from the mistakes of others...
mark2gmtrans is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #1032 of 1155 Old 07-07-2013
grumpy old man
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,953
Thanks: 1
Thanked 92 Times in 88 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Great Brent. That's good. 50 boats, that's something to be very proud of. Good for you.
They built 600 Islander 28's, 500 Freeport 36's and I'll stop there. Oh, no, wait, 600 Tayana 37's. I won't bore you with more numbers but I have lots of them.

101 Ct 54's. Sorry, just had to throw that one in. It was my very first grp design.
Probably not a good idea to play a numbers game with me. You admit you are challenged by numbers. But I do not think it's about numbers. It's about excellence in design and lasting value.
smackdaddy likes this.

Please visit my blog. It's fun to read.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Bob's Blog ....

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Please also visit my new web site
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
bobperry is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #1033 of 1155 Old 07-07-2013
Once known as Hartley18
 
Classic30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 4,757
Thanks: 44
Thanked 64 Times in 64 Posts
Rep Power: 9
   
Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Great Brent. That's good. 50 boats, that's something to be very proud of. Good for you.
They built 600 Islander 28's, 500 Freeport 36's and I'll stop there. Oh, no, wait, 600 Tayana 37's. I won't bore you with more numbers but I have lots of them.

101 Ct 54's. Sorry, just had to throw that one in. It was my very first grp design.
Probably not a good idea to play a numbers game with me. You admit you are challenged by numbers. But I do not think it's about numbers. It's about excellence in design and lasting value.
Hey, Bob - c'mon, you said you were going to go easy on the guy!.

Seriously, don't sweat it. We know your skills and we know Brent's skills and you're both recognised yacht designers with (mostly) completely different approaches, ideas and opinions. There's nothing wrong with that.

How about we get back to the topic at hand... what was it again? Oh, that's right..
Brent Swain likes this.

-
"Honestly, I don't know why seamen persist in getting wrecked in some of the outlandish places they do, when they can do it in a nice place like Fiji." -- John Caldwell, "Desperate Voyage"
Classic30 is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #1034 of 1155 Old 07-07-2013
grumpy old man
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,953
Thanks: 1
Thanked 92 Times in 88 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Hart:
as an old Ashfield boy that's about as easy as I get.

I congratulate Brenton his success. As you said, we work in totally different areas. I see no reason for anyone to, I know the word, I just can't spell it, dimean? demean? damien? derneighn? ok put down my group of sailors.

If somone buys one of my boats and sails it every weekend with an occasional cruise for two weelk arond thr PNW. Who am I to tell him he is not a "real sailor"?

Please visit my blog. It's fun to read.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Bob's Blog ....

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Please also visit my new web site
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
bobperry is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #1035 of 1155 Old 07-08-2013
Last Man Standing
 
smackdaddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 14,126
Thanks: 135
Thanked 125 Times in 118 Posts
Rep Power: 9
     
Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
It's about excellence in design and lasting value.
Bingo.

Game. Set. Match.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

S/V Dawn Treader - 1989 Hunter Legend 40
smackdaddy is online now  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #1036 of 1155 Old 07-08-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 282
Thanks: 1
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Heres another one I like, Its Aage Nielsen's Northern Crown
Attached Thumbnails
northern crown.jpg   100449232.CtEMcqkw.jpg  

Last edited by jak3b; 07-08-2013 at 02:16 AM.
jak3b is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #1037 of 1155 Old 07-08-2013
Senior Member
 
blt2ski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 6,845
Thanks: 0
Thanked 25 Times in 24 Posts
Rep Power: 11
 
Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

I wonder if wolf would like THIS yacht! or any of us might like invictus. steel hull, composite superstructure! Not sure Brent has this ability to design a really nice steel boat like that one! not that I want a power boat........wife saw it off of Edmonds a few weeks back, described it to me, I thought "Invictus" Took a pic the next time I was in the Delta yard.......sent it to her............

Marty

She drives me boat,
I drives me dinghy!
blt2ski is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #1038 of 1155 Old 07-08-2013
Splashed
 
JomsViking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 554
Thanks: 28
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Jeff_H and Bob did you do more of the interior, or did I miss that in all the excitement? I'd really like to see a discussion of that, as well as some of the good (and strange) ideas designers/builders/owners has come up with over the years, and not least Your take on this.

Looking forward to it!

/Joms

Last edited by JomsViking; 07-08-2013 at 05:13 AM.
JomsViking is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #1039 of 1155 Old 07-08-2013
Closet Powerboater
 
MedSailor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Anacortes PNW
Posts: 3,444
Thanks: 232
Thanked 107 Times in 97 Posts
Rep Power: 8
 
Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
No , I dont think you can avoid the "bad seamanship" of happening to run into Fukashima debris on a foggy night. Plastic under you doesn't automatically make you "luckier".
My boats are fast, go to windward well, and make good passage times. They have often outsailed fibreglass boats they were not supposed to outsail, including Beneteaus. Their strength has been proven beyond all reasonable doubt, over the last 32 years. There is no point in waterproof bulkheads, as there is little if any chance of punching a hole in 3/16th plate on a 36 footer. ...
...They just dont want to risk lives and that of their families, in a plastic boat, which couldn't survive a collision, unharmed, with a large piece of Fukashima debris, like a dock or wreck. Better to have your hull bounce off, unharmed, that to have it stowed in and end up relying on a bulkhead to keep you afloat, in mid ocean.
While I don't doubt that your boats are strong, as that seems to be your main selling point, steel boats sink too when they hit stuff, even strong ones. It's not just the Titanic either (which curiously you criticize for not having watertight bulkheads and yet you say they are pointless in another post). I only know one person (who wasn't giving a lecture or selling a book) who has used a liferaft in anger. His steel yacht sunk out from under him 3 days outside of Hawaii after a collision with an unknown underwater object. Steel didn't protect him from a collision.

I also interviewed a boat owner (to do the Vic-Maui) of a GRP boat that hit a whale (they saw bloody chunky bits) and while it stove in part of the bow, it didn't hole the boat. It was GRP with some Kevlar included with the glass, a C&C I think.

Steel can be weak.
Steel can be strong.
GRP can be weak.
GRP can be strong.

A strong hull of GRP or steel is no guarantee of staying afloat after a collision. The ocean decides.

MedSailor

I have a sauna on my boat, therefore I win.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
MedSailor is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #1040 of 1155 Old 07-08-2013
grumpy old man
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,953
Thanks: 1
Thanked 92 Times in 88 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Joms:
Jeff did the interior in several iterations until he had it the way he wanted it. Then he did a deck plan. Not sure if he ever posted the deck plan. Maybe he should post it again. We can argue for a month over deck layouts.

Please visit my blog. It's fun to read.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Bob's Blog ....

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Please also visit my new web site
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
bobperry is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bob Perry's Tragic Loss smackdaddy General Discussion (sailing related) 16 07-09-2013 10:57 AM
What's your dream boat? dovetailnj General Discussion (sailing related) 58 07-08-2013 12:48 PM
What's your dream boat??? DavidB.UK General Discussion (sailing related) 4 06-22-2013 04:06 PM
Perry's new Sunday blog bobperry General Discussion (sailing related) 12 11-07-2011 06:05 PM
A boat dream! pjboots Boat Review and Purchase Forum 28 03-22-2007 03:10 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome