Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat - Page 112 - SailNet Community
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post #1111 of 1155 Old 07-13-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Now I remembered another quote from another designer......"a canoe shaped DWL is one of the fastest boat styles." ALtho his boats I am remembering the basic wording from never were as fast as the rating implied. Not sure it truly would place per say as boats equal to it. No I am not talking about BP! Considering what this person did to company, not sure I want to say the name.

I can see where a canoe style underbody, DWL etc would be best for a typical go anywhere, get there reasonably fast in all conditions as a good starting point. If one wants to go down wind, has the ability to go down wind, then a wider flatter stern would be a better choice, as one can then put up a chute and plane some. BUT, one still needs a hull that can go up wind! One can not always be an unlimited hydroplane or equal per say, and only have one speed forward in a given water condition if you will. So there will always be some give and take based on the how and where you sail.

Hence why for me, a boat design that has the potential to plane some is nice. As bob can probably attest, around here, you are either going up wind/current or down wind current, or current opposite the wind! Not really sure what reaching is per say!

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post #1112 of 1155 Old 07-13-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Heres anothe DE or DE's
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post #1113 of 1155 Old 07-14-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

This going in my next boat
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AG1MnXkHhlM
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post #1114 of 1155 Old 07-15-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

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Originally Posted by blt2ski View Post
Now I remembered another quote from another designer......"a canoe shaped DWL is one of the fastest boat styles." ALtho his boats I am remembering the basic wording from never were as fast as the rating implied. Not sure it truly would place per say as boats equal to it. No I am not talking about BP! Considering what this person did to company, not sure I want to say the name.

I can see where a canoe style underbody, DWL etc would be best for a typical go anywhere, get there reasonably fast in all conditions as a good starting point. If one wants to go down wind, has the ability to go down wind, then a wider flatter stern would be a better choice, as one can then put up a chute and plane some. BUT, one still needs a hull that can go up wind! One can not always be an unlimited hydroplane or equal per say, and only have one speed forward in a given water condition if you will. So there will always be some give and take based on the how and where you sail.

Hence why for me, a boat design that has the potential to plane some is nice. As bob can probably attest, around here, you are either going up wind/current or down wind current, or current opposite the wind! Not really sure what reaching is per say!

Marty
With the weight the average cruising boat carries, planing is wishful thinking. The Atkin double enders had a habit of hobby horsing, as the lack of reserve buoyancy in the stern, meant the centre of buoyancy didnt shift aft as the bow rose, so she stayed in sync with the waves for a long time. They also took a lot of green water over the stern, far more that wiht a transom boat, also due to this lack of reserve buoyancy there. Bob solved this problem to a large degree, with his rounded sterns; with lots of reserve buoyancy .
It would be hard to do in origami, but I have often looked at those big steel mooring balls and thought "I could get several transoms out of one of those. " It would be about a week's extra work to match one up to an origami steel hull.

Brent Swain, Boat designer, Builder, and author of "Origami Metal Boatbuilding"
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post #1115 of 1155 Old 07-15-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

"but I have often looked at those big steel mooring balls and thought "I could get several transoms out of one of those. "

Interesting thought Brent but a couple of things:
One...They are not "transoms". They are double enders and as such have no transoms.

Two...There is nothing spherical in the shape of my DE sterns. They are a complex shape that almost goes hollow as it approaches the centerline. The Valiant 40 and thre Esprit 37sterns do go slightly hollow. They have almost a "heart" sectional shape to them. Preparation for this complex shape must start well forward, say around section 6 so the transition into the canoe stern is graceful and gradual. If you ever see my book show several sets of line so you can see how this is done. I fear your spherical stern would look a bit awkward.

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post #1116 of 1155 Old 07-15-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Good points .I would try it first with a model. Nothing shows aesthetics like a model.I have got a bit of wineglass shape out of my transoms by welding the centreline fully, before pulling the plates down.

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post #1117 of 1155 Old 07-15-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Brent:
Are you saying you are not sure what shape you are going to get until you pull the plates into postion? I've been wondering about that part of your method.

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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Rounded sterns also eliminate the problem of transom drag. One can go for a lower transom for a longer water line and risk transom drag, or raise the transom higher and have to settle fo a shorter waterline.
A rounded stern gives you the best of both worlds, even raising the PC a bit as the stern goes down. However, given the fast passage times of my boats which were heavilly loaded, I wonder how significant transom drag is. An anemometer is an example of how much more important rounding off the front is compared to rounding off the back, when it comes to resistance.
A sugar scoop is a light and easy way to eliminate transomn drag, while increasing the waterline length.

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post #1119 of 1155 Old 07-15-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

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Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
Rounded sterns also eliminate the problem of transom drag. One can go for a lower transom for a longer water line and risk transom drag, or raise the transom higher and have to settle fo a shorter waterline.
A rounded stern gives you the best of both worlds, even raising the PC a bit as the stern goes down. However, given the fast passage times of my boats which were heavilly loaded, I wonder how significant transom drag is. An anemometer is an example of how much more important rounding off the front is compared to rounding off the back, when it comes to resistance.
A sugar scoop is a light and easy way to eliminate transomn drag, while increasing the waterline length.
Brent, what you're referring to (a Spoon Stern in Navy speak) was quite common on steamers and passenger liners around 100 years ago for the reasons you mention - but the designers back then realised (as hopefully you will), that a rounded stern does not actually eliminate transom drag, so they invented the Counter Stern... a rounded stern transtioning to a point at and above the waterline.

Perhaps this is more like what you had in mind??



..and then they realised that the curves were too expensive to build and discarded valuable deck space, so the rounded stern was ditched in favour of a flat transom like everyone else uses... and which made 2/5ths of no difference so long as the stern wasn't dragging in the water.

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Last edited by Classic30; 07-15-2013 at 08:14 PM.
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post #1120 of 1155 Old 07-15-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

That's a beaut Hart. That is very graceful. Who owns that ship?
I wonder if they got that shape by welding at the centerline first and then bending the plates?
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