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post #161 of 1160 Old 04-27-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

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Do you know any production boat that have you on a waiting list for more than a year on this times where all are selling less? If not, now you know one, the Pogo.

They don't go to boat shows (not even the Paris boat show) they don't make publicity, they do not make discounts and make the boat as inexpensive as they can, carbon mast and all. They don't need my publicity and I said already that the boat does not make my style.

That does not mean that I can't see the obvious: The boats are a huge success and there are a lot of sailors buying the 12.50 and the 10.50 as a fast cruiser and voyage boat: the boat makes the style of many.

They are clearly a great design and a great boat, one of those that will enter sailboat history as pioneers, like the Vailant, 40 years ago.

I bet that the new baby (also from Finot/Conq) that just hit the water some days ago will have an even bigger waiting list

I am talking about the Pogo 30:











Regards

Paulo
Paulo,

You know I'm squarely in your corner on the "I like fast boats" thing. But c'mon, you're not making sense here.

I drive a Mini Cooper S. It's a hell of a fast, fun car. Turbo charged, stiff suspension, sensitive steering, paddle shifters, etc. But even with the seat warmers, it's not at all a comfortable car for long trips. Not. At. All.

I love the Pogos, the X-yachts, etc. But I'm under no illusion that they'd make comfy long-term cruising platforms for my kids, friends and family. That's more important to me right now (along with price of course) than speed.

Sure, I'd love to wrap myself in a sailing Maserati that looks a lot like a Vendee boat! What super-verile manly man wouldn't? But, within the context of this thread - you're making no sense at all.

Personally, I'd like to see this thread stay true to its title. I want to see what Bob does with Wolf's boat - not get into another debate about "modern" hull forms that has already been so wonderfully explored in your "Interesting Sailboats" thread.

But that's just me. I have no idea what you guys are talking about - I just want to see that viking boat get some new junk.
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post #162 of 1160 Old 04-27-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

I'd agree with you on that smack.

Personally, I would do something like the Morris M-series, possibly the Alerion boats too. ABove they stay that older LOOOOONG overhang look etc, but below they have a spade rudder, deep'ish draft bulb keel..........That would as mentioned make the underwater part be a bit shallower. But try to keep it rounded with out too many flat portions such that she will not pound going into some wave really bad like some(mine) for instance!

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post #163 of 1160 Old 04-27-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

I want a really extotic car
But I have two dogs. One dog is old and she can't leap up into the car anymore.
The other dog is young and she can leap around the car all day.
There is not f**king way I can live with the car of my dreams.

I like living with my dogs.
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post #164 of 1160 Old 04-28-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Paulo,

You know I'm squarely in your corner on the "I like fast boats" thing. But c'mon, you're not making sense here.

I drive a Mini Cooper S. It's a hell of a fast, fun car. Turbo charged, stiff suspension, sensitive steering, paddle shifters, etc. But even with the seat warmers, it's not at all a comfortable car for long trips. Not. At. All.

I love the Pogos, the X-yachts, etc. But I'm under no illusion that they'd make comfy long-term cruising platforms for my kids, friends and family. That's more important to me right now (along with price of course) than speed.

....
You may have the impression that I am proposing the Pogo as a cruising or long range voyage boat for all. Hell no, the boat in his basic version is even to spartan for what I like.

What I am supporting is evidence and reality: Even if those boats are too spartan for me in what regards interior cozyness, (not for sailing but to live aboard for extended periods) they are not for many. The fact that you have a long waiting list to have one and the way they are used is simple undisputable evidence of that. There are even a member of this forum seriously considering to have one to live aboard permanently.

Look at the last ARC, with 300 boats and you will see several Pogos, even if the guys that like those boats are not much the type of sailors that do the ARC. Look at how many Catalinas, Sabres or Tartans you will find there.

Catalinas, Sabres or Tartans are not new boats and have been made in huge numbers. not so with the Pogos that only some few years ago started to make a cruising boats with more than 28ft.

The Pogo 8.50, the previous model of the one you have re-posted was sailed and cruised extensively even if it had not a swing keel. The boat crossed the Atlantic many dozens of times. It is designed to sail far with a solo sailor or two sailors but I have known of boats that crossed the Atlantic with three aboard, so evidently the provisions can be carried to make the voyage. And if the provisions to cross the Atlantic with three can be carried aboard a 8.50m boat don't you think that would not be a problem with much bigger sized similar boats, like the Pogo 10,50, Pogo 12.50?



This not means that I would chose to voyage on one...but take me 20 years of age and I could be very interested specially if the alternative for the doing the same (price) was a slow, no fun boat.

Smack, what I am saying seems evident to me: If there are a considerable number of cruisers sailing and voyaging on that type of boat and many more wanting to do so, it is because that boat as a cruiser and voyage boat satisfies their needs and desires.

I am not defending this type of boat as an ideal voyage boat. In fact I don't know what that is since I know that the ideal voyage boat varies with the life style and sailing tastes of the sailor and that's why there are available on the market not only one type of voyage boat, but many types. If there would not sell and sailors would not want that type of boat for cruising the shipyards would go bankrupt.

The cruising Pogo is not fit for racing (it has an horrible handicap) they are bought and sailed for cruising and that's one of the boats if not the boat that has a longer waiting list on a time were shipyards struggle to survive. That does not say anything to you? Well maybe it says that all those guys are stupid, wrong and don't know what is a cruising boat. I don't think so.

Regards

Paulo


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post #165 of 1160 Old 04-28-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Paulo- On another thread Bob referenced his new ketch and Icon. In my mind one is a turbo Bentley and one a 911. I view my boat as a Mercedes. All are fast within their design parameters. Wolf has said his rig is tunable to deal with the spectrum of wind we see. He has said his canoe body and appendages are slippery in the conditions he sees. He loves it's ride. He reports his VMGs are excellent. Purpose of this thread is to see if with the advances of time can Bob modify these to produce a vessel that produces better performance without destoying the ambiance and feel of Wolf's excellent boat. NOT TO SELL POGOs

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post #166 of 1160 Old 04-28-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

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Paulo- On another thread Bob referenced his new ketch and Icon. In my mind one is a turbo Bentley and one a 911. I view my boat as a Mercedes. All are fast within their design parameters. Wolf has said his rig is tunable to deal with the spectrum of wind we see. He has said his canoe body and appendages are slippery in the conditions he sees. He loves it's ride. He reports his VMGs are excellent. Purpose of this thread is to see if with the advances of time can Bob modify these to produce a vessel that produces better performance without destoying the ambiance and feel of Wolf's excellent boat. NOT TO SELL POGOs
Maybe to sell Oubounds?

Contrary to you I don't even have a Pogo or chose it as my cruising sailboat and it seems that makes you more partial about the Outbound than me about the Pogo.

That comparison between a Mercedes, a Bentley and a 911 is not a bad one. Off course all are fast but not on the same league and most of all they will offer very different levels of pleasure in what regards driving and comfort. Most will prefer a Mercedes to voyage, others a Bentley and some few, that put the driving pleasure over comfort, would prefer a Porsche.

That is what I am talking about since the beginning. In the Pogo case they have the added advantage of costing half the price of the Mercedes and one third of the Bentley's price, while on the cars the prices will be not that different. Probably that contributes a lot for Pogo's popularity.

Cruising Pogos are out there sailing, voyaging and cruising the boats are a huge sales success, the 12.50 was last year chose has European performance cruiser of the year, they have a big waiting list, they don't need anybody to sell their boats.

regards

Paulo


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Last edited by PCP; 04-28-2013 at 09:59 AM.
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Bob, did you know that for two years Honda made the Honda Element complete with an optional dog ramp, that slid up and into the rear of the SUV, and a dog grate to keep the dog in the rear? Really novel concept, all built in and easy for dogs to walk right up, and then they discontinued the whole model.

That Pogo reminds me of 60's modern all-round fiberglass furniture with thick green shag rugs. Don't see much of it around these days, do we?
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post #168 of 1160 Old 04-28-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

FOr those that get sailing magizine, Bob does a nice write up of the RM1250 in the latest issue I got in the main the other day!

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post #169 of 1160 Old 04-28-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Ski:
Thanks for that.
Unfortunately they did not use the sail plan that I had that showed the odd spreaders placement which really looked like an error. The sail plan SAILING used in the article has very normal looking spreaders making my spreader comments seem odd. Oh well, there's only so much I can control with thises write ups.

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post #170 of 1160 Old 04-28-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Bob,

The plan in the issue does show a little of what you are talking about, but probably not as much as you saw in the print you have. Whether it is as you noted, or truly more equal in distance in reality.......that is a mute point at this time!

I do feel it would make a reasonably good cruiser for here int eh salish sea. Not sure I would want it for open ocean per say. Or the article int he britich rag Yachting I was reading, where it higlights a couple in a true open 40 with a 2 and 4 yr old, and she is 6 month preggers! I am sure at times a boat like that is easier to handle than some designs....others harder. Again, that comes down to knowing a given boat.

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