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  #171  
Old 04-28-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by blt2ski View Post
Bob,

The plan in the issue does show a little of what you are talking about, but probably not as much as you saw in the print you have. Whether it is as you noted, or truly more equal in distance in reality.......that is a mute point at this time!

I do feel it would make a reasonably good cruiser for here int eh salish sea. Not sure I would want it for open ocean per say. Or the article int he britich rag Yachting I was reading, where it higlights a couple in a true open 40 with a 2 and 4 yr old, and she is 6 month preggers! I am sure at times a boat like that is easier to handle than some designs....others harder. Again, that comes down to knowing a given boat.

marty
Marty, the RM 1200 was designed as a fast voyage boat and it has been very used for that since then. The boat has a success an the RM 1260 is just a more modern design by the same NA along the same principles. It will not suit all, specially the ones that voyage a lot against the wind but that boat more than a coastal cruiser was designed as an offshore cruiser to be sailed solo or with a short crew and that's why you can find a strong influenced from solo racers in what regards the hull design.

The boat was extensively tested, not only reviewed through some information, but actually visited and sailed, by professional sail testers from many European sail magazines. They sailed that one and all the others that had been chosen among the best cruisers to the nominated for the European boat contest. The RM 1260 won the title of best family cruiser and that is quite amazing because that is a voyage boat while the others were more main market cruising boats and therefore apparently more suitable for general family cruising.

It is obviously a very good offshore sailboat and all tests I have read refer that. It could be used on your almost closed waters since it has a small draft but the boat was designed to be used as an offshore boat. It would be a pity to limit its use to Coastal protected waters. For that you can use a simpler boat and not one that can be sailed from the interior or one with a cutter rig.

Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 04-28-2013 at 01:17 PM.
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  #172  
Old 04-28-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

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Originally Posted by PCP View Post
The cruising Pogo is not fit for racing (it has an horrible handicap) they are bought and sailed for cruising and that's one of the boats if not the boat that has a longer waiting list on a time were shipyards struggle to survive. That does not say anything to you? Well maybe it says that all those guys are stupid, wrong and don't know what is a cruising boat. I don't think so.

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All it says to me is that there is a pretty good market of guys who want boats that look fast. Nothing stupid or wrong with that at all. Maybe, as you say, they represent a younger market - which would be great for the sport. But, as you also say, this demand does not inherently make that boat type a good cruising platform - just as my country's fairly recent obsession with gigantic SUVs (Hummers, etc.) did not make those sensible cars to own.

I agree with you. There is no ideal. I'm just trying to figure out how all this relates to Bob's take on Wolf's boat?
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  #173  
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
All it says to me is that there is a pretty good market of guys who want boats that look fast. Nothing stupid or wrong with that at all. ...
Well, if it was like that it would be pretty stupid

The boat does not look fast, it is fast. Here you have a Polar speed comparison with a very fast racer the x 41:

fastsailing.gr - The crazy polar diagrams - VMG at all angles - The yachts , Stunningly fast!

Regards

Paulo
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  #174  
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

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Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Well, if it was like that it would be pretty stupid

The boat does not look fast, it is fast. Here you have a Polar speed comparison with a very fast racer the x 41:

fastsailing.gr - The crazy polar diagrams - VMG at all angles - The yachts , Stunningly fast!

Regards

Paulo
Yeah - I know they're fast. I was playing off this in your post above:

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The cruising Pogo is not fit for racing (it has an horrible handicap) they are bought and sailed for cruising...
They may look like a super-fast Vendee boat - and they may be worlds faster than a typical comfy cruising boat - but in reality (especially in the context of this thread) they're neither.
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  #175  
Old 04-28-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Because my roller furler does not use a headfoil it allows me to fly another hank on sail on the stay with the big Genny rolled up....I just procured a hank on Genny of the same dimensions as the roller. Because the winch and the masthead sheave were taken up with the roller furl, using a couple of blocks raised on the halyard with the roller furl I am now able to fly two large Gennys wing and wing (combined about 900sqft). Because the roller is behind the headstay (by a couple of inches) this is a solent rig
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  #176  
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Here is an interesting twist to the original question, how about taking the same Captain Cicero hull design but putting a swing keel on it, this would give better shoal capabilites and when in deep water you have something really deep.
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  #177  
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

That sounds like fun Wolf. With those two big genny wung out it will be easy going.
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  #178  
Old 04-28-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

kewl thing about one being a furler, I can furl it in to any size and use any of my other hank-ons for heavier downwind sailing. And the "foil-less" furling system allows me to use any hank-less sail w/wire or similar luff

Last edited by wolfenzee; 04-28-2013 at 04:37 PM.
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  #179  
Old 04-29-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Paulo,

Where I am, draft is NOT an issue. Most of the time within a KM of shore my depth sounder does not work! THere are some shoal area's, generally speaking few and far between. Most folks here would not buy a CB or shoal draft boat. THose designs in general would bring a negative value to the boat, unlike the east coast of NA. If I could get another 6" to 6' on my current boat, I would be happy! That is a foot over Brians min and he has 12 more feet of boat than I do. I could not imagine 5' of draft on a 40' boat. 7-8' min, no issues!

The problem here, is you are going against usually a min 2-4 knot tide, if the wind is bucking it, you are goin upwind, it gets UGLY!! short steep chop! so one needs a boat that will handle this style of upwind work, along with going back down wind. THere is NO reaching in this part of the world. or very very short time frames.One needs a boat that will do up and down wind work.

Marty
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  #180  
Old 04-29-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by blt2ski View Post
Paulo,

Where I am, draft is NOT an issue. Most of the time within a KM of shore my depth sounder does not work! THere are some shoal area's, generally speaking few and far between. Most folks here would not buy a CB or shoal draft boat. THose designs in general would bring a negative value to the boat, unlike the east coast of NA. If I could get another 6" to 6' on my current boat, I would be happy! That is a foot over Brians min and he has 12 more feet of boat than I do. I could not imagine 5' of draft on a 40' boat. 7-8' min, no issues!

The problem here, is you are going against usually a min 2-4 knot tide, if the wind is bucking it, you are goin upwind, it gets UGLY!! short steep chop! so one needs a boat that will handle this style of upwind work, along with going back down wind. THere is NO reaching in this part of the world. or very very short time frames.One needs a boat that will do up and down wind work.

Marty
Hi Marty,

I hear so many talk about the need of shallow draft that I thought that would apply there. My bad.

Regarding upwind sailing to put the record straight the RM 1260 will go probably as fast as any mass production main market boat upwind on those conditions, including a Jeanneau 409 that is probably the best. It will do so probably a bit more uncomfortably, specially with the short waves you are talking about (more power but also more wave drag).

The RM 1260 will not perform as well upwind on those conditions (waves) as more traditional performance cruisers, namely mass production cruiser-racers like a Salona 41, a Dehler 41 or a First 40 or 40.7: Less fast and more uncomfortable motion.

Regards

Paulo
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