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  #201  
Old 05-03-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

And the boom was raised so much further off the deck because...why?

So Mr. Lincoln could wear a top hat while at the helm?
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  #202  
Old 05-03-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Boom height would be a function of what headroom you wanted under it in the cockpit. These days people aren't keen on ducking.

Boom height can also be a fucntion of what dodger height the owner wants. I'd go for a dodger no higher than what is needed to give 40" headrooim when seated in cockpit. Top of dodger cannot be in line of sight.

I'd like to sde the mainsheet go to a bar type "horse" over the transom with the tiller under it.
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  #203  
Old 05-03-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff_H View Post
No, Paulo, assuming Bob is on board for this, she would not look traditional and all. This one's mine!

I'll gladly take input from you as she develops.

Jeff
Thanks for the confidence. Has you know I have posted on interesting sailboat thread two designs from the time I was thinking in having built a boat designed by me with the help of a NA. Only about 3 or 4 years distance between the two designs and they are hugely different. I guess that if I was doing it now the difference would have been a lot bigger.

I will help in what I can but I have an approach different from yours in what regards methodology. You probably know Kevin Lynch, the Architecht, on one of his books he has a very interesting essay about different methodologies to approach any subject. Mine (and not only for this) fits in what he describes opportunistic (without any negative connotation). Applying to NA I just have a considerable knowledge of what is been made on top of NA today, I try to evaluate the results (including racing results), I try to understand why they are doing it that way (including different and sometimes contradictory ways) and through all that I try to have a global picture in what regards shapes, performances and functions.

You have a much more analytic approach.

Regards

Paulo
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  #204  
Old 05-03-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Paulo:
That's the same way I work but I add a nice layer of analytical data on top of it just be sure. I tend to trust my eye more than I trust numbers. If it were all about numbers anybody could be a yacht designer.
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

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Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Paulo:
That's the same way I work but I add a nice layer of analytical data on top of it just be sure. I tend to trust my eye more than I trust numbers. If it were all about numbers anybody could be a yacht designer.
Well said! As Albert Einstien said "Wisdom doesn't come from study, wisdom comes from showing up for life."
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

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Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Ok you guys. Put on those pointy hats and go sit in the back of the class.
Pay attention! Spit out your gum! Sit up straight!

Your limit of positive stability CANNOT be more than 180 degrees. Think about it. It could possible be around 160 degrees, possibly. But it certainly cannot not be in excess of 180 degrees. It is impossible to maintain any positive stability beyond 180 degrees. Once you et to 183 degrees YOU HAVE TRULY CAPSIZED and you are on the way back up on the other side. That is not" self righting".
Oops my screwup. Didnt read the second number carefully.
A 12 meter hull has positive stability to within a couple of degrees of 180, if you put a proper deck and cockpit on her.
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Smackers:
I think you have it spot on old chap. "Circular logic".

Brent:
"airtight one piece door" "Airtight"? Boy, you are smoking some weird stuff. Time to get real. Show me one "airtight, onepiece door" that works on a yacht. Then show me "airtight one piece " window frames and "airtight one piece" hatches.

You guys can be very easily entertained. Brent was buying into the 183 degrees of positive stability one moment and now he's lecturing us on stability. That's choice.
I'll wait for his explanation of 183 dgree positive stability.

We can be stupid here or we can all work together to understand the reality of what makes yachts work. I've been at it for a long time. I am pretty comfortable with my understanding of naval architecture. My track record speaks for itself.

183 degrees, that made my dogs laugh.
Your choice.
Most of my boats have an airtight, one piece door, and hatches, as do most of the round the world racers and coast guard boats. Take a look at one , built to the plans. With the pressure being from the outside, forcing it inward, any good gasket will make it airtight
My windows are half inch plexi bolted with a 2 inch overlap, onto the steel cabin side with good beding compound, totally airtight.
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Brent:
I have used "water tight" doors before but I have never thought of them as "air tight". The water tight doors I have used have been a bit industrial looking and not suited to the look I want for a main companionway door. They are also a bit awkward in that application and hard to mate to a companionway sliding hatch. If you can build one that works for the companionway then good for you. I'm impressed. Can you post an example of one of your doors please. I'm not too old to learn something.

As for stability numbers: To many people here they are still confusing and I figure if they read "183 degrees" they might just believe it. Then we have some back educating to do to be sure people are not being misinformed and even more confused about stability figures.

In terms of the Australian roll over study and pilot house boats I would assume, correctly I hope, that in that study they did figure the PH volume was water tight at the least. I was not part of that study. I just read excerpts from the results.
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

The probelm is the sliding hatch, impossible to seal completely. I gave that up almost 40 years ago. If you give the back of your cabin about a 25 degree slope, it puts the top of the opening as far ahead of the bottom, as a sliding hatch would give you with a vertical back. Thus, with a single door and no sliding hatch, it can be just as easy to walk thru, as a boat with a sliding hatch and a vertical back on the cabin would be, and a lot easier to make airtight. Your feet go down before your head reaches the front of the opening. The slope also makes the cockpit a lot more comfortable for lounging in. As any pressure would simply force the door inwards against it's seal, you dont need all the dogs a coastguard boat has, just a simple one dog. I put the handle at 90 degrees to the dog, so if it slams, the dog will stop it from slamming the fingers, altho using aliminium for the door, it feels almost as light as a piece of cardboard, as long as you are not so foolish as to put a lot of heavy, decorative woodwork on it , to make it super heavy.
Laid back against a 25 degree slope, it is unlikely to slam by itself anyway.
For a forehatch, I notch the corners out of a piece of 1/8th aluminium, have the four sides bent up in a brake press, along with a couple of diagonal kinks for stiffness, and weld them. I give this cover 1 inch of clearance all around the hatch coaming, then cut the sides to fit and just meet the cabintop as the coaming meets the top of the cover. Then, one gasket outside on the cabin top and one inside on the hatch top and you have something very water and airtight. Both gaskets would have to fail simultaneuosly. If the outside leaks, the water would have to fill the one inch clearance completely before it could reach the second gasket. This hatch can be made out of scrap aluminium for under $25 and is a far better hatch than commercialy made ones costing hundreds of dollars
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Old 05-04-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

THe sail area to me looks about equal to a bit more. The main seems a bit too tall. I would shorten it to the halfway mark from the new to old. Tall makes somesense since the boom is a foot or two taller, also shorter......a bit squatier if that is how it should be said would be a bit more in keeping with the original look, yet taller for a bit better perforamance especially in lighter winds.

Not sue what to say about the dodger, other than I am not sure that one would look good on ANY boat! A mini pilot house might be a better look option of a dodger is needed.

Marty
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