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  #211  
Old 05-04-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

When numbers defy logic , it is probably the numbers which are wrong.
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  #212  
Old 05-04-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Yeah but for arguments sake I would add this caveat:

When numbers defy logic , it is probably the numbers which are wrong. "
That would depend wholly upon the skill behind the logic.

Can't have anymore of the "183 degrees positive stability" stuff.
That's already slipped right by someone's logic.

Back to Live From the Met, Poulenc.
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  #213  
Old 05-08-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Well, here is the latest edition. There has been a whole lot of tweaking going on. The hull lines have faired out and become a little more powerful, there have been small adjustments to the rig. The Maestro has been aiding me in coming up with a dodger that I really like. I won't speak for Bob on this. It is not really inspired by Bob's Batman costume despite what youmay think.

One of the oddities has been designing a bow roller that fits in with the lines and which is also fully functional. I must admit that this version is a work in progress.

In the end, I think this has become a much more modern boat in almost all ways. She should be faster and more seakindly, a whole lot more stabile and easily handled in changing conditions. I cannot swear for tracking ability since the rig and hull have not fully balanced as of yet. Its on my agenda.

But anyway here is version R-7E.


[IMG] photo ProgressPrintingPS-32R-7E5-7-13_zpsc5f34eb2.jpg[/IMG]
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  #214  
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Looks great Jeff. ?What's the lod,loa,lwl? Looks like you optimized every square inch. Seems a sprit (? retractable) to support dw sails and maybe a yankee could work and not destroy the classic feel to the boat. Would be beautiful with bright work for the stern and sides of the house with everything else white.
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Old 05-08-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Jeff, considering that retractible bowsprits can take a tremendous load...why not a retractible bow roller? Something that would deploy out of the anchor "locker" or a clamshell on the bow, allow the anchor to come up and lock onto it, and then have the entire thing retract and lock itself down?

Isn't the entire concept of a "bow roller" as fixed hardware, well, somewhat overdue for a change by now?
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Old 05-08-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Sorry I have been away awhile, I moved my boat back down to Port Ludlow and have been spending time getting things straight. Moving back here reinforced my belief that grace beauty and elegance need not be sacrificed for speed and performance, example the Etchel fleet that sails out of here and an old meter boat that is just downright sexy. I will give modern boat designers (I do not use the term yacht because to me that implies among other things a grace and beauty above that of the common boat) the benefit, of the doubt and just assume esthetics were just not a part of the "equation", though an attempt to manipulate handicapping "numbers" has removed any shred of past beauty. Followed by tweaks to make the resulting race design somewhat feasible for cruising results in something that can only be described as "something that ugly must be fast"
Back to my boat, it points very nicely and it doesn't take much to get it to hull speed. The most I can see the changes on the hull might accomplish (if a all) would be requiring less sail area to get it up to speed in light air (something that is really only important where handicapping rules are in effect). Newer does not necessarily mean better.
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Wolf:
Go ahead. Live in the past. I applaud you if you can do that.
"Handicapping rules", "handicapping numbers" do you really want to talk about this with me? Do you really think you know what you are talking about? I can assure you that neither Jeff nor I had ay thought at all abut "handicappig nuimbers when we drew this new boat. It's a silly idea.

No, I think not and that's OK. You like your boat the way it is. That's great. But to imagine that there is not a better way to do a nice boat today is kind of shortsighted and oblivious of the advanements in yacht design.

I'm not sure I can talk about yacht design any more with you.
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  #218  
Old 05-09-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Sorry about that, I am not saying I think it cannot be improved, anything can be improved and I wouldn't have posed the question to you in the first place if I didn't think it were possible. The influence of the advertising industry in our culture tends to talk down things that are being improved to make the improvements look more significant. Yes make boat is of an old, even antique design....that does not mean it is obsolete and/or excessively inefficient. I am not in a position to have a new boat designed and built so have been making slight performance tweaks over the years. "Historically correct" sits about as well with me as "politically correct", even though Pat Atkin sort of looked down her nose at me and said "Oh you have a modified Atkin", William Atkin would embrace the tweaks that improve the performance of his design.
Bob, sorry again, there is a fine line between getting a rise out of you and insulting your opinion

Last edited by wolfenzee; 05-09-2013 at 12:09 AM.
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Old 05-09-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Irrespective of Wolf's take on "grace and elegance" vs. performance - what interests me most about this thread/exercise is the alchemy of the visually "old" with the hidden "new".

If I can be so bold, Bob, that's what I love about your designs (I have your book). You don't do away with the beautiful "old" curvatures of yachts (like most of the stark, angular performance boats of today)..you just make it all work*.

Singular focus is relatively easy. Successful alchemy of form and function is beautiful.

So, please, from the peanut gallery...keep going Bob and Jeff.

(*I'm an ex-architect that comes from the Utzon/Saarinen line of appreciatives. For what it's worth...)
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  #220  
Old 05-09-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

I have designed a hard dodger for my boat, the lines of which follow the shear of the cabin top. I don't have much space under the boom and present sheeting system (something I am improving anyway) does not allow dodger to go aft of the cabin trunk. New sheeting system will improve windward and downwind performance and allow for dodger.
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