Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat - Page 24 - SailNet Community
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post #231 of 1155 Old 05-09-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

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Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
Believing that the buoyancy in a wheelhose would have no effect on ultimate stability, is like believing that attaching a 2 ft diameter beach ball to the underside of a surfboard would have no effect on it's stability. I prefer logic, no numbers crunching required.
Brent - you really would help your case if you'd put up photos, etc. of this stuff you've done. You always say how superior and less-expensive your inventions are compared to the industry standard stuff, but when asked to post a photo of the application, like Bob asked above, you almost never do it from what I've seen across the forums. Why?

Now, I have seen pics of your blocks, your windlass, etc. - but that's about it. I'm honestly interested in how you're doing these things - especially if they really are better and cheaper.

It would certainly give your arguments a bit more credence if you could show instead of just tell. Just sayin'.



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post #232 of 1155 Old 05-09-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

I don't think he's finished welding up his scrap steel camera yet.

I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
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post #233 of 1155 Old 05-09-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Brent, I found this pic of one of your 12M's for sale. Is this the type of hatch you're talking about?

http://yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-...ain-12m/113348
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post #234 of 1155 Old 05-09-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Brent, I found this pic of one of your 12M's for sale. Is this the type of hatch you're talking about?

Used Brent Swain 12m for Sale | Yachts For Sale | Yachthub
WOW!! That's a serious hatch! Whatever floats your boat, I suppose..

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post #235 of 1155 Old 05-10-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

These people seem happy with there Brent boat.
silascrosby dot com/sail/
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post #236 of 1155 Old 05-10-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Nice hatch.
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post #237 of 1155 Old 05-10-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

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This is strictly my opinon, but here goes, while double (or more)spreader rigs make sense on race boats, really big boats, and boats which are dependent on overlapping headsails, they do not make much sense on cruising boats. Double spreader rigs are much harder to tune and maintain, with more parts to fail. In my mind, cruising boats should be simple and reliable. The main advantage of a double spreader rig is allowing a narrower shroud base, and/or a smaller mast section. If the design is arranged so that the boat does not need to use larger overlapping (the shrouds) headsails, the spreaders can be wide enough to get plenty of mast support without double spreaders and the boat will be a better cruising boat.
.

Jeff
Jeff, I find these comments interesting as our Bristol 45.5 has single spreaders in spite of having a very tall mast (just fits ICW) and a working displacement of around 40,000 lbs. We sort of stand out from other older cruising boats in the 43-47 foot range that we have seen that all have double spreaders. We certainly have a large, overlapping genoa, even the #2, but do have an enormous mast section. I never question Ted Hood's design ideas and in this case, as in just about everything on the boat, it works. We even point quite well with the 12' board down.

Heading back to Lake Ontario for this summer. Ainia is back in North America for the first time since 2010. Currently in Long Island Sound.
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post #238 of 1155 Old 05-10-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

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Originally Posted by jak3b View Post
These people seem happy with there Brent boat.
silascrosby dot com/sail/
Thanks for the link jak.



Nice looking boat.

But see that's just it - I've seen Brent unnecessarily hammered on other forums for the way he works. And I honestly think that's pretty chumpy. I personally like the way he works and see value in it. It's extremely inventive. And I know full well that there is a market of people out there that love his boats and applications very much.

On the other hand, it's when he continuously claims that his designs/applications are superior to conventional marine designs/applications that the bar is raised...especially in the context of a design discussion such as this. He needs to show how this is true - just as any other designer must do. Otherwise it's just talk. That's why it's easy for people to jump on him.

So, I have no intention of hammering Brent (although I might not agree with him). But I would very much like to have him illustrate and discuss his ideas (especially in a thread like this where very knowledgeable designers are holding forth) so I can decide for myself if he's "right" or not. That's just me.


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post #239 of 1155 Old 05-10-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

That is one high cut genoa ;-)
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post #240 of 1155 Old 05-10-2013 Thread Starter
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

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Originally Posted by killarney_sailor View Post
Jeff, I find these comments interesting as our Bristol 45.5 has single spreaders in spite of having a very tall mast (just fits ICW) and a working displacement of around 40,000 lbs. We sort of stand out from other older cruising boats in the 43-47 foot range that we have seen that all have double spreaders. We certainly have a large, overlapping genoa, even the #2, but do have an enormous mast section. I never question Ted Hood's design ideas and in this case, as in just about everything on the boat, it works. We even point quite well with the 12' board down.
I have no doubt that my preference for a single spreader rig is a bias on my part that is based on the pragmatic and probably not supportable from a performance standpoint on the science. Like you I have a bigger boat than the one we are designing with a single-spreader rig, although my boat is a fractional rig. My mast sectin is not especially large and except for my lower shrouds, my standing rigging is lighter than double spreader the Ericson 38 at my dock.

My boat is roughly the same displacement as the design we are working on but wildly more sail area (The design currently shows an SA/D around 19 and my boat is around 22.7) I love the simplicity of tuning this rig and the ease of inspection and maintenance. (My boat below)

Synergy- Beating out of White Rocks photo SynergySailnetcruisebeatfromsternBi.jpg

Synergy Beating out of Leadingham Cove photo Hardeningup-LeadenhamCreek1fixed.jpg

Bob has expressed a strong preference for a double spreader rig.

Jeff


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