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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum > Sailboat Design and Construction
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  #261  
Old 05-13-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by blt2ski View Post
Cam, Not sure what I am doing wrong, but if it is length divided by beam, I am 2.85, 30/10.5 = 2.85! if one is using deck length, 28.5/19.5 = 2,714285714 Still, I am about a foot wider and 2' shorter! Now the boat you mentioned is NARROW. I would still say this boat design is on the narrower end of things. Probably ave but narrow would be the better way to put it.
Sorry Marty, I misread your post as saying your LOA was 32.5'.. My bad.

I was really pointing out that the stats posted were for a beamy boat (like mine, yours and many others) - not something super-thin where getting the correct headsail angle to the breeze is a relatively simple design task with fewer constraints.

Jeff & Bob's posts both make sense to me. It's amazing (to me) how complicated rig design really is (ie. full of compromises and trade-offs) and yet it's something most of us take for granted as 'looking simple': just a stick with a few stays.
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Last edited by Classic30; 05-13-2013 at 11:22 PM.
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  #262  
Old 05-14-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

[quote=Brent Swain;1029680]Thanks
Silas Crosby, the boat in this picture, is currently on her way to the Aleutians via Juan Fernandes, Mangareva, the Marquesas and Hawaii after having rounded Cape Horn. You can find the blog by doing a search under Silas Crosby.


Heres another Swain 36 doing a circumnavigation.
tagish.blogspot dot com/
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  #263  
Old 05-14-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

dont shoot me. I know nothing , but are we back to a bow spritz, or a jib boom?
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  #264  
Old 05-14-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

The original Atkin design was a "knock about" or "stem headed jib" (no bowsprit) and had a jib boom which the second owner removed for performance reasons (it also a "deck sweeper" so is a safety issue)
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  #265  
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

NIGHT RUNNER did Cape Horn and it's quite a looker.
Wins races, lots of them, too.
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  #266  
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Desert Rat:
I won't shoot you. Jeff is just finishing up the sail plan now. He got side tracked while he designed an interior. He has a few small details to work on but it's pretty much done and looking good. We did not use a bowsprit as we tried to stay with the basic aesthetic of Wolfer's boat.
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  #267  
Old 05-14-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

As Bob said I have gotten a bit side tracked. But for those of you coming in late, here is what happened in the previous episodes. Wolfenzee owns a slighltly modified version of an Atkins design called a 'Captain Cicero'. He had asked Bob Perry if Bob thought that his boat could be improved with a fin keel. Bob said that he and/or I could come up with what that might look like. Somewhere up the thread there is an image of that design. Along with the fin keel, the boat also got a slighly larger rig. It changed a little above the waterline but not very much.

But then the conversation swung to what would happen if that design was modernized and adapted to a more current tastes in offshore cruisers, conceptually as if someone like Pacific Seacraft wanted to produce an updated design to replace their 34. And that design has been evolving for several weeks now. Here are the drawings of this more mainsteam version of a somewhat conservative offshore cruiser.

Also included is an interior layout for the first time. While I had some ideas about how the boat might layout, in the end, it turned out that the portlight had to move a little forward and the shroud attachment moved a little aft.

 photo CompletesetR-35-14-13_Page_1_zpse46dffed.jpg

 photo CompletesetR-35-14-13_Page_2_zps23b42e6f.jpg

 photo CompletesetR-35-14-13_Page_3_zpsd37afe88.jpg

This would not necessarily be a boat that Wolf would find appealing. But if he sailed on her, he would find her motion recognizable, and this version would be more stable, easier to handle and much faster. The interior would also be more roomy and would have full headroom wherever there was deck.

As to the bowsprit comment, I have owned boats which had headsails tacked on a bowprit. I know that there are lots of folks who don't mind those things. But frankly, other than spinnakers, if a sail needs to be peeled in heavy weather, I do not like being perched out there doing so. Since the original design did not have a sprit, I felt like we had 'permission' not to add one here.

Respectfully,
Jeff
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Last edited by Jeff_H; 05-16-2013 at 03:13 PM.
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  #268  
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

I'd just like to mention that between this thread, Bob's articles in Good Old Boat, and Bob's book, and Jeff's thoughtful and patient contributions to Sailnet, I have learned a lot and am thinking differently about sailing these days. I am getting a much better understanding about why my boat sails the way it does, and I really pay attention to how she behaves in different circumstances, and how her design determines that.

It's really fascinating, and has increased my enjoyment of sailing.

So, I wanted to thank you all. Carry on.
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

djodenda:
Thank you. I enjoy being a part.
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  #270  
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

All the time that I was working on the design design above, I was thinking, if this were going to be my boat, and I started out with the 13,200 lb displacement that Atkins says that Wolf's boat weighs, what would that boat look like. Throughout the process I was noodling with that a bit. Whereas the boat above takes the general length and beam of Wolf's boat, but is lighter and has way less wetted surface, this boat would take the general displacement of Wolf's boat and try to put it to better use.

I know that Wolf probably won't like this boat. There is no boat that will appeal to everyone. But this one was intended to only appeal to one person. That person is me. (Although knowing that Bob is riding shotgun, I did not want to go too far off the reservation.)

But there is a little more to this than the process to date. Anyone who read my comments on the Tim Jackett/ Island Packet's Blue Jacket 40 knows that I was a little disappointed with that design. It seemed like that should have been a great boat. Instead it seems like a gimmick filled 'camel' (as in a horse designed by committee).

I had hoped it would have been a boat which really knocked my socks off. I had hoped it would be the kind of performance cruiser that I could wax poetic over, but what resulted frankly is pretty unappealing to me.

But if I am going to say that the Blue Jacket is not a boat that I would want (even if I could afford one, which I can't) I began to think about what a boat would be like that would grab my attention and make my heart go 'Boom Boom'.

So with that in mind I took a stab at what I thought that that boat should have been. I started with the rough displacement of Wolf's boat. (Atkins said it was around 13,200 but I had to trace the lines of Wolf's boat at the beginning of this exercise and I just ran the calcs on that and found that the displacement as drawn was closer to 14,000). Unfortunately this boat as it is currently drawn, is a little overweight relative to the 14,000 lbs I started out wanting to hit.

At this point I am not sure that I want to make her much lighter though as her D/L and SA/D are about where I would like to see them.

She is designed around some of my own personal preferences; fine entry, vee'd and flared forward sections, elytical mid sections, straight run, fractional rig, deep sailing draft but retractable bulb keel, lots of ventilation, and so on.

This is still a pretty conservative design relative to where the newest boats have gone, but she is very advanced compared to where we started.

I think this design also illustrates a point that I have tried to make around here over the years. A longer boat for a given displacement should be not only a lot faster, but also offer more space, carrying capacity, better seaworthiness and seakindliness, than a shorter boat with the same displacement.

So here are a set of first drafts for my version of what I would do with 14,000 lbs displacement, (well actually 14,700 lbs).

 photo MyVersionR-1_Page_1_zpsab4ff185.jpg

 photo MyVersionR-1_Page_2_zpse3b34752.jpg

 photo MyVersionR-1_Page_3_zps27885e73.jpg

She makes my heart go 'pitty-pat'....Just waiting for that dump truck full of money to show up to my house that someone mentioned above.....

And while its tempting to say, "needless to say", it is not needless. I want to thank Bob for all his shared wisdom and guidance. I also appreciate the kind words above.

Jeff
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Last edited by Jeff_H; 05-14-2013 at 06:21 PM.
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