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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum > Sailboat Design and Construction
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  #401  
Old 05-28-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

This has turned into a really kewl thread....originally a modern take on an old design...it has addressed hull design of various types, as well as rigging and sails and performance on all counts, to name a few things. Not mention things other than performance, but rather how a particular boat's importance to an individual "The perfect boat is a balance of an individual's priorities". I may have appeared as though I was so stubborn so as to not pay attention to what other people were saying...that is not true, I was just being defensive of an older though not obsolete design. Alot of what has been talked about would work great for a racing sailor in coastal waters with lot of money to accomplish that....some of what has filtered through works for us poor cruising sailors.
I will put alot of thought into my main before I have it made.
The only way I would have battens on my boat would be fully battened ($$$$!!!!)
Two reefs w/deep second reef, 8oz cloth, triple stitched,One question I would like to ask, when I take a sail into be checked out, the first thing they check is the condition of the stitching....there must be a better materiel than what is used for thread in sails
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  #402  
Old 05-28-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Brent, I have to say, after following your posts over the past couple of years, you are more of a propagandist than any builder, designer, chandler I've ever seen. Most of these you decry respond to what the market demands - adding technologies as needed. You on the other hand demand that the market want what you tell them they should want. How is that better?

A bit of the pot and kettle dude.



If your math is right, you should be building more boats than Benetaeu. Are you? If not, you should check your math.
I dont demand anything, I just warn people of the pitfalls of following trendiness over logic, warnings I wish someone had given me in my youth. Some one probably did , but I was still in the grip of commercial hype, and disinformation.. Market demands are are shinyness and trendiness over logic.( style over substance values)

I'm on the brink of retirement, and dont want any work I cant finish in less than two days. I have never wanted to build a lot of boats, just enough to help the small percentage of practical people. An energy minister once suggested that I go into mass production. I told him "You go ahead. I'll go sailing and send you postcards, I have all the money I need, so why would I bother?" Full pension, more money than I know how to spend, is about to come flooding in. Think I will spend it comitting totally senseless, random acts of kindness.
Beneteau's production is a testimony to the effect of mass advertising to the gullible masses, and to the gullibility of those masses, not to quality.
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Last edited by Brent Swain; 05-28-2013 at 05:46 PM.
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  #403  
Old 05-29-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

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Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
NIGHT RUNNER wins Swifsture Race overall,,,,again!

My-Tai the Flying Tiger 10m that I designed won the Juan de Fuca race overall. That two years in a row with overall wins for the Tiger. Not bad.

That's two first overalls this year in the biggest race in the PNW.
Last year I had three first overalls. It was a good year. But the Baba 40 didn't race this year. That's Ok. I'm not greedy.

I know I posted almost the same thing before. I just thought some current reality might help here.
Attached Thumbnails
Night Runner is my next door slip neighbor. I get to admire all the beautiful varnish without ever picking up a brush.

You said it Bob with your first post in this thread. That boat IS a wolf in sheep's clothing! I've raced a couple times on her and I found myself looking around wondering how on earth we seemed to be just gliding so effortlessly and pulling away from the pack.

That's three Swiftsure's for Douglas and 2 in the last 3 years. ICON won last year if I recall, so that makes thee years running for custom Perry designs.

MedSailor

PS I love how you managed to fit an aft cabin into night runner and still have an aft cockpit, but DON'T have all the freeboard of a Huntalinato. Magic!
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  #404  
Old 05-29-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Thanks Med. I appreciate your comments.

Yep NIGHT RUNNER is a wonderful old boat that keeps on hanging in there with the newest rockets. I think especially on this thread it is helpful for some SailNetters to see a boat that can go around Cape Horn, cruise the South Pacific, race single handed to Hawaii and win consistantly against the best in the PNW racing fleet for 33 years all the while looking fabulous. And the crew loves the boat.

Today NR is an old war horse with a very tough PHRF rating but the boat can win in a breeze (last year) and can win the drifters (this year). My wife asked me tonight, "What makes it so fast?" My answer, "Not sure. But I know I tried hard to design a fast boat." There are major features to NR I'd like to change today to make the boat even faster but it doesn't seem necessary.

Ow! I think I just pulled a muscle patting myself on the back.

I "borrowed" that aft cabin/offset companionway detail from Phil Rhodes. I can't take credit for that. But thanks anyway.

I hope you have had the fun of driving NR. There is no boat like NR on a blast reach, balanced to perfection, two fingers lightly on the wheel, Doug with a big grin on his face and the crew having a great time.
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Last edited by bobperry; 05-29-2013 at 01:55 AM.
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  #405  
Old 05-29-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Congratulations Bob. It says a lot about the advantages of a well rounded designs and skipper and crews who know thier boat.

I'm just back from 4 days out on the water and so am coming into this late.

Jeff
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  #406  
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Thanks Jeff. And the truly amazing thing about NIGHT RUNNER is that is has battens in the mainsail.
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Last edited by bobperry; 05-29-2013 at 10:30 AM.
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  #407  
Old 05-29-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

For everyone's enlightenment here's the 'old girl' under discussion... Congrats, Bob.

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  #408  
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

I saw that batten silliness above.

Its funny; I have had perhaps a half a dozen mainsails with full- length battens and sailed on dozens of other boats with full batten mainsails. The battens and their pockets have never been the part of the sail that wore out. I do have sticki-back chafe patches on the pockets where the full length battens hit the shrouds on deep reaching and running angles, and I typically have added another layer at some point in the life of the sail.

The cost for my last mainsail included quotes for conventional and full length battens, and they were the same as the cost for both. Given the much longer sail life with the full length battens I opted for the full length battens. I did opt to splurge on high tech batten tension adjusters with a gauge and screw adjuster, and those added another $100 to the sail (less labor, more part costs).

The way that I see this, even if a battenless mainsail saved any money, it would be a false economy given the considerably shorter life these sails have. But then again, its not me buying these sails, but clearly there is a huge difference in my concern for durability and performance vs. theirs.

Jeff
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  #409  
Old 05-29-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Thanks Jeff. And the truly amazing thing about NIGHT RUNNER is that is has battens in the mainsail.
Her main is a Schattauer sails dacron main (a local hand done loft with a really good reputation for cruising sails). The main has the top 2 battens full, with the next 2 partial. One thing I found curious is that she doesn't have an adjustable outhaul. Instead she has a flattening reef.

35 year old (cold molded) wooden boat with a dacron main beating the pants off boats with thin glass hulls and carbon fiber masts. There's just something I really like about that. Oh, and yes, she has been around the horn, as mentioned, so she's strong too.

MedSailor
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  #410  
Old 05-29-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Thanks Med but if we crow about NIGHT RUNNER anymore they might make me buy an ad.
With your help I think I made my point. A great boat can also be a beautiful boat.
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