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post #491 of 1155 Old 06-03-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

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Just a gol'darn minute here.
I owned a Catalina 27. It was a fine boat, fast and well balanced. Just because you can't balance a Cat 27 don't blame the boat Brent. Is it an offshore boat? Of course not you ninny. It ws never intended as anoffshore boat. Look at the companionway.

How many Cat 27's have you sailed Brent?
How many Cat 27's have you owned Brent?
How many fiberglass boats have you built?
Sailed several . The 23 is wel balanced, the 27 very hard to control downwind in a rough sea. Wouldnt dream of owning something so flimsy.
Gave up fibreglas boat building in th elate 70s. To toxic to deal with and nowhere near as strong and worry free as steel. Also getting expensive.

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post #492 of 1155 Old 06-03-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

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I actually loved that C27. No way I would have taken it off-shore, but it was a fantastic boat to sail. Strong, fast, once outpointed a Bene First in a race (no joke), and was really fun to sail.

As for my off-shore experience, I only have maybe 1500 miles of off-shore racing and returns (on a Pearson 365 and on a Pacific Seacraft 37) - absolutely none in a boat I've built with my own hands, and absolutely none in a steel boat.

But I AM a very informed customer. So that actually makes me an expert if you think about it. I'm the audience you're preaching to.

As an informed customer, if you could bring yourself to just talk about your boats without all the "Anything Else is Crap for Sheeple" hyperbole, I could throw you a credibility bone (and actually have in the past).

That said, you should completely ignore me and answer the guys above that actually know. If you can convince them - you certainly don't need to convince the likes of me.

I like you Brent. Just be real.
The suggestion being that, it is wrong for any designer and builder to really believe strongly in what he produces, so the buyers should seek out the builder or designer who doesn't believe strongly in what he produces.
Not warning people of badly designed or badly built products is irresponsible, possibly life threatening. I dont consider such negligence "Being Nice."

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post #493 of 1155 Old 06-03-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

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The suggestion being that, it is wrong for any designer and builder to really believe strongly in what he produces, so the buyers should seek out the builder or designer who doesn't believe strongly in what he produces.
No, you inferred incorrectly again. I absolutely think a designer/builder should believe VERY strongly in what he produces. I just don't give much credibility to those who continually diss other designer's/builder's work as "Crap for Sheeple" instead of illustrating (with actual documentation, not outlandish second-hand hearsay) the merits of his own work. Something really fishy about that.

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Not warning people of badly designed or badly built products is irresponsible, possibly life threatening. I dont consider such negligence "Being Nice."
Totally agree with you there. I just haven't seen you do much of that - at least not credibly.


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post #494 of 1155 Old 06-03-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Hartley:
Many thanks for posting the spar drawing. Beautiful drafting. Lovely lettering. The designer was a very sklilled man. I can tell he loved his work by the way he drafted.
It was drawn the year I was born.

I did some wood sticks for some of my early designs. I have those drawings and I find them very beautiful. I'm a bear for good drafting and I have always held myself to a high standard in that area. I am lucky to have had some very good drafting mentors over the years. Maybe I'll get one of my spar drawings digitized and you can compare them.
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post #495 of 1155 Old 06-03-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

The problem Brent is that your idea of "badly designed" is just your opinion derived from a very narrow and limited amount of yacht design work. I suspect you are limited in the shapes you can get with your building method so you spend most of your time trying to justify that shape. Your method is very clever and I admire you for that. But the method limits the shape. It's not a bad shape but it's just one shape and there are many other shapes that work and some may offer improvements in performance over your stock shape. Your constant attack on other boats and the people that own them is tiresome. Be proud of what you have developed and HTFU.
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post #496 of 1155 Old 06-03-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

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Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
Spruce is far less prone to checking, and if it does, the checks are tiny
My mast is a single piece of bare, air dried sitka spruce, 40 ft long 4x6 inches no glue , only three knots the size of your little finger nail in it. Been up there 29 years, no problems.
Oh, so it's a modern one then?? My new mast, a couple of feet longer than yours and exquisitely designed and fabricated (and glued) so it's a helluva lot lighter than yours must be, was first raised in 1957..

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post #497 of 1155 Old 06-03-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

I'm sure a solid stick is far easier and quicker to make than a lam box section. That's fine if quick and cheap are what you are after. But weight aloft is not good.

I'll tell you a little story:
We were designing a nice 65' cruising yacht and I was working on the weigh study. It was looking good and going along just fine. I came in one Monday morning and pulled up the weight file on the computer and noticed that my VCG had jumped up dramatically. I did not like it in the new, higher locaction. What the hell had happened? I began to go over some of the numbers and then noticed that I had entered the weight of the mast twice (me and my fat fingers). Considering that this was not a light boat at all, probably D/L around 240 as I recall, I was surprised that just doubleing the mast weight would have such a large effect on the overall VCG. But that's weight up high with a bigger moment distance than any other weight on the boat.

I do everything I can now to try and convince custom design clients to go with a carbon mast. In Kim's case with the SLIVER project we were able to get a used Farr 40 mast, quite inexpensively that fit our needs almost perfectly. In fact there were two used Farr 40 rigs on the market at that time. I gave up a few feet of "P" but the cost savings made it palatable. Carbon masts are well beyond the "exerimental" stage now and pretty much standard on all new custom boats. I even had one owner of one of my 43' Cheoy Lee motor sailer ketches switch to a new carbon rig. That was a bit unusual. His previous spars had been spruce.

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post #498 of 1155 Old 06-03-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

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......I even had one owner of one of my 43' Cheoy Lee motor sailer ketches switch to a new carbon rig. That was a bit unusual. His previous spars had been spruce.
Any feedback on how much that changed the boat's behaviour?

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post #499 of 1155 Old 06-03-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

It's a shame what they charge for carbon now. Would think now it's tried and true prices would come down not go up.Prices jumped radically up in last few years. Even the upgrade to an all carbon spin pole was a couple of K.

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post #500 of 1155 Old 06-03-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

I'd love to try my hand at building carbon spars. Not much need for wooden ones these days.

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Bellingham, WA.

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