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  #521  
Old 06-05-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Me? "forebearance"? You must have me confused with that other Bob Perry.

Those are great looking boats Jeff. When I was a kid I dreamed of owning a Folkboat. The other boat has sweet lines. That's a stylish looking ride. Love the jib topsail. Or is that a yankee? You were a very lucky kid. I see palm trees behind the Folkboat. Where did you live?
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  #522  
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

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Originally Posted by Jeff_H View Post
I suspect that you think that I am just a modern boat guy who does not understand traditional wooden boats. While I currently own relatively modern boat, and have for a number of years, I have not always owned modern designs. Bob suggested that you might appreciate seeing these two boats that I previously owned and restored.
Indian: 1939 Stadel Pilot cutter




Nice! Very nice!! You'd get instant membership of the Classic Yacht Association with a yacht like that.

Lucky kid indeed. How did she sail, Jeff??
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

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Originally Posted by Jeff_H View Post
As to the design process that has been going on in the background: for the past few weeks, when I haven't been sailing or trying to get work done, I have have, with Bob Perry's kind assistence, guidance and forebearance, been developing an interior layout for 'my version' of the boat that has been evolving within this thread. Here is that interior layout:
Looking good, Jeff.
  1. Liferaft in a stern compartment is a great idea! I've seen it like that on an old Dehler but otherwise it's uncommon I think.
  2. Where would you put the fuel tank(s)?
  3. Is there enough room in the v-berth for a full sail wardrobe? Looks kinda cramped 'tis all..
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

I am not argueing anyones tastes in hulls, present and or past, but rather trying to apply modern sail design to my boat. The most recent pic should help for anyone that has ideas on that.
My fore peak is similar to that of the pilot cutter, possibly even smaller, it really isn't good for anything but storage (only room to sit on a bunk if you lay back on the curvature of the hull).
I looked at my boat and all the places I could stow a life raft and finally came up with the only feasible place was on the boomkin...I put this idea to a friend and he told me his parents who had circumnavigated had an inflatable skiff with a CO2 bottle for a life raft, far more durable and/or reliable than a life raft which notoriously go down pretty quickly. My lazarette is big enough to keep a life raft in addition to regular stuff in there, but raft would be in the way of everything else or vise versa (either way a bad idea)...it's so big I am actually considering changing it over into an aft cabin that extends under the cockpit...far more spacious than my forward cabin, on a small boat each crew member having "their own space" is a bit of a luxury which on long passages can make a very big difference.
One other note, when I looked ay how my boat likes to heel, knowing where the water line on the leeward side would be at heel I noticed what parts of the hull are actually out of the water to windward. My boat is referred to as a "round bilged knock about", well the water line on the windward side at a heel falls below the round in the bilge which would reduced drag significantly I might think.

Last edited by wolfenzee; 06-05-2013 at 10:23 PM.
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hartley18 View Post
Looking good, Jeff.
  1. Liferaft in a stern compartment is a great idea! I've seen it like that on an old Dehler but otherwise it's uncommon I think.
  2. Where would you put the fuel tank(s)?
  3. Is there enough room in the v-berth for a full sail wardrobe? Looks kinda cramped 'tis all..
Hartley,
The fuel tanks on 'my version' are under the settee in the main cabin where I can get to them and clean them easily. I really do not like having fuel tanks in the engine room since I think that the heat of the engine can accellerate the fuel forming algae.

The sail inventory is small. It would consist only of a mainsail, jib, spinnaker, storm tri sail and storm jib. The mainsail would live on the mast/boom, and the jib is roller furling. Offshore the trisail would live at on its own track and store at the base of the mast as it does on my current boat. So that only leaves the storm jib and spinnaker which easily fit in the large sail locker on the port side of the cockpit.

The Folkboat was one of the nicest sailing boats I ever sailed. A true joy on all points of sails and winds.

I always describe the Stadel cutter as sailing 'gracefully', very gracefully. She actually sailed pretty well and I could get her going okay in light air (we had a huge genoa and a spinnaker and used them when necessary). She was a bear in a breeze, and really took a lot of skill to sail when it got knarly. She was tender, tracked poorly and had a lot of weather helm in the tough stuff.

We raced her once. Nailed the start, had a super windward leg, a perfect spinnaker set. Despite great tactics and we were clobbered by a fleet of San Juan 21s..... coming in second to last, but very Gracefully.


Bob,
I owned the Folkboat in Miami. I bought her for $400, which I earned working commissioning trailer sailers at a place called Expressway Marine (doesn't the name say it all), working construction, and parking cars. She took 10 months to restore.

The Stadel cutter I bought with my dad for $2,000 and she was in Sarasota, Florida. She was really rough when we got her. Worked for a year to get her cleaned up and fully usable, and spent the remaining 10 years that Dad had her trying to keep up. (I went back to get my masters and he kept the boat) Lovely boat though.
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Last edited by Jeff_H; 06-06-2013 at 08:22 AM.
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Fuel tank is in cockpit locker, 25gal = 400+nm at 6.5kt (I have room for a second on the other side), under setees in main cabin is water tanks 25gal each. I have just replaced the deck hatch (16"x16" inside meas. and flush to deck) with a larger hatch 22"x22" raised up and with 1/2 clear lexan. With the previous hatch while standing all the way forward on cabin sole the deck level was at waist high (and it was a tight squeeze for shoulders). I have increased the light and "vertical clearance", new hatch hinges either way or pins can be pulled and hatch slide open under a skiff (so you can get ventilation even while it's raining). Mast to chain locker is 9', but not much in the way of "head room" (unless you consider the 1' of cabintop ahead of the mast to give headroom while sitting on then composting head).
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

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Originally Posted by wolfenzee View Post
Fuel tank is in cockpit locker, 25gal = 400+nm at 6.5kt (I have room for a second on the other side), under setees in main cabin is water tanks 25gal each.
Similar configuration to my old bus - except I have a single 25gal water tank on the other side of the cockpit and junk storage under the setees..

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Originally Posted by wolfenzee View Post
I have just replaced the deck hatch (16"x16" inside meas. and flush to deck) with a larger hatch 22"x22" raised up and with 1/2 clear lexan. With the previous hatch while standing all the way forward on cabin sole the deck level was at waist high (and it was a tight squeeze for shoulders). I have increased the light and "vertical clearance", new hatch hinges either way or pins can be pulled and hatch slide open under a skiff (so you can get ventilation even while it's raining).
Got any pics, Wolfie?? Just curious to see how I might change my current forehatch..
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

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Originally Posted by Hartley18 View Post
Similar configuration to my old bus - except I have a single 25gal water tank on the other side of the cockpit and junk storage under the setees..



Got any pics, Wolfie?? Just curious to see how I might change my current forehatch..
Not yet but will make sure to have before and after (actually waiting on combing from wood worker friend) and hatch is the midship hatch from photos already posted, pic are painted but it turned out to be Honduras mahogany so is now bright
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Hartley,

Whenever I think about the Folkboat, this story always comes to mind. This is a long version that was written out for another purpose. After graduating with my undergraduate degree, I decided to buy a boat a boat and live aboard while I decided what I wanted to do with the rest of my life. After working and putting away enough to buy a small boat I began looking for a boat to call home. I ended up buying ‘Diana’ a 1949 Folkboat located in Dinner Key near Coral Gables in Florida. I had purchased ‘Diana’ derelict, and a near wreck. I had spent 10 months restoring her to sailing condition. I had replaced the rig, rudder, and keel bolts. With lots of help from my father, and Diane, my then girlfriend and future first wife, I had sistered the frames, replaced some floor timbers and planking, constructed a new cockpit and interior, replaced a piece of the stem and the forward face of the cabin, had wooded the bottom, and topsides and repainted her inside and out.

As 1973 raced to an end, my yard bill was paid up through December 31st, and I had decided that I would get the old girl launched in time for the New Year. As it worked out the yard closed down on Christmas Eve and would not open again until January 2. So, it was that ‘Diana’ was splashed on Christmas Eve.

‘Diana’ was a lapstrake wooden boat. Having been out of the water for so long, her planking had dried out and her seams had opened up so wide that you could pass a thick piece of cardboard through them. There is a process to launching a wooden boat that has been out of the water for that long that amounts to nearly sinking the boat for a day or so, but that is story for another time. Even after the seams have seemingly swelled closed again, the theory with a wooden boat that has been out of the water for a long period of time is that you must let the planking continue to swell in the water for another week or so before you can stress the hull by sailing the boat. Since much of the strength and stiffness of a wooden boat comes from the friction between the planks, this swelling period allows the planks to swell hard against each other and create the necessary friction.

I spent that whole week bailing, finishing the rigging, and working on fabricating the new cockpit and interior for the boat. To keep ‘Diana’ from sinking during the night, I slept on a slatted grate that I had made as a temporary cabin sole with my foot hanging into the bilge so that the rising water would wake me and I would know to bail.

In a week that passed before I noticed that it had even started, it was suddenly New Years Eve and I had to get the boat out of the boatyard. With a week in the water, the leaking had pretty well stopped. While I had to move ‘Diana’ outr of the main portion of the yard, I had been given permission to tie up for free between an old piling and a bulkhead on the edge of the boatyard out of the everyone’s way. I figured as long as I had to sail over to the new slipway, I might as well go out for a sail first.

This was to be my first sail on the Folkboat, and my first sail as the skipper of my own keel boat, and only the second time that I had single-handed an engineless boat this big, and one of the first times I had single-handed at night. I slipped out just as the sun was setting into a classic sky-on-fire Florida sunset, beating east in a light ghosting breeze beneath a Jack-o-lantern of a sky. I sailed quietly toward a blood red rising moon in an ever darkening evening, horizon and sky becoming one, heading toward the pass at the southern end of Key Biscayne.

A Folkboat is a marvelous little boat, which as I discovered that night, can sail herself seemingly for days at a time; just trim, aim and off she goes. I sat up on the cabin top, steering with a jib sheet held in hand; bearing off the wind by tightening the sheet and heading up with an ease of the sheet.

These were simpler times and quieter times. I had Biscayne Bay to myself; no running lights to be seen anywhere. ‘Diana’ was free of anything that one might call modern. She did not have an engine and so did not have an electrical system or running lights. Being a few inches less than 25 feet on deck, I simply carried the legally required flashlight, which I was prepared to shine on my sails if another boat appeared in the night. The head was a simple ‘bucket and chuck it’ system. There were no lifelines or stanchions. Navigation was simple piloting with a folded small craft chart in my lap and a tiny compass that looked more at home on a dashboard of a car than in the cockpit of a boat that was a year older than I was. There was no radio and the GPS was decades from being invented.

To those of you who have spent much time single-handing after dark, you will probably know what I mean, when I say there is nothing quite like the emotional sensation of being alone at night at sea. There is this profound sense of being more alone than you have ever been in your life. There is a sense of tranquility and a sense of speed that is far beyond that felt in the light of day. There’s a sense of self-reliance and sense of a fear that comes from realizing that it is up to only you to make the right or wrong decisions out there and if your decisions are wrong, it is only you who pays the consequences. The carpet of stars overhead lit the sea and their distance made me seem even more infinitesimally small, and humbly insignificant.

I sailed for hours in the chill moderate breezes, but around ten or so, I reached the mouth of the narrow, unmarked, coral-bordered channel into the Atlantic. Resisting temptation and yielding to prudence I turned back for home on a nice broad reach in a building breeze.

The trip back into the lights of Dinner Key is mostly lost to memory but when I arrived at the harbor I began to sort through my possibilities. It had suddenly occurred to me that I had never brought a boat this big into a dock alone under sail. I sailed back out into the mooring area, and practiced a couple approaches to the piling. I decided my best bet was to approach a couple boat lengths to leeward on a beam reach and then head up into the wind. I had decided that there was no way that I could be on the helm and still make it forward in time to place a line over the piling.

Somehow, seen through the rose colored optimism of youth, it made great sense to me to steer into the dock controlling the direction of the boat with the jibsheet while standing on the foredeck. If I figured if missed the piling I would fetch up on sand bar just ahead of the piling. Now youth is an amazing thing, you have not learned enough to know what you don’t and may never know. Youth brings a confidence that can only come when you don’t know the consequences of making a really big mistake.

So in my youthful confidence I came roaring in on a beam reach, standing on the foredeck, jib sheet in hand. At the moment of truth, I freed the jib sheet and Diana pirouetted gracefully up into the wind. I grabbed the clew of the jib and moving it from side to side, steering and slowing the boat. Coming to a dead stop right next to the piling. Polite as you may, I threw a bight of a dockline over the piling.

And there I stood, dockline in hand, congratulating myself on a job well done. I stood there cold and numb, a toothy grin across my face, scanning the docks for some sign of life; some witness to my brilliant feat of seamanship. No good deed goes unpunished and in my moment of self-congratulatory elation, nature took its turn to take me down a peg or two, hitting Diana with a big puff from the opposite side of the jib from where I stood perched on the narrow foredeck and pushing me hard towards the rail. As I went over the side, I dove for the shrouds, grabbing the upper shroud with my forearm, slicing it deeply on the Nicropress fitting that should have been taped for just such an occasion, and dropping feet first into the already cold waters of Biscayne Bay in December but still keeping my grip on the boat.

As I hung over the side, legs in the water, I tried to decide whether to let go and fall backwards into the water, or pull myself aboard. Remembering a check in my wallet in my pocket, I slowly pulled myself over the rail and back aboard.

My scream as I went over had roused a crowd from the boats tied up nearby, a large crowd in fact, that arrived just as I pulled myself from the water. As I lay there on the foredeck, winded and bleeding, soaked and shivering; the sound of fireworks and firecrackers bursting in the distant darkness and a chorus of Auld Lang Sine from the drunks in local juke joint wafted out to tell me that I had just entered into the brand New Year.
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Funny Jeff. Welcome to yachting.
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