Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat - Page 58 - SailNet Community
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post #571 of 1155 Old 06-08-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

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Jak:
We talked to various builders and one of them was Jim Betts down in Trckee, CA. His specialty was racing boats done in alu and his bid looked good
(that's another long and sad story) so we went with him. His build style preference was alu with a carbon deck so we knew that would work and we went with it. The boat is now over ten years old and there have been no issues with the build. Betts is a true artist with aluminum. He is a sculptor. The bowsprit was made from split mast extrsuions. If I could draw it, he could build it out of alu.
Gotcha,Thanks Bob.

Last edited by Faster; 06-08-2013 at 09:54 PM. Reason: fixed quote
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post #572 of 1155 Old 06-08-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

We saw Wild Horses at Jedidaih Island a couple of summers back.. shared the anchorage with them. Unusual (for me) that I didn't paddle over for a closer look, but I certainly had no inkling at the time that it was a metal hull!! But it was identifiably Perry, and Brent's boats are indentifiably Swain.

Bob.. Many years ago (25???) we saw a boat in Victoria harbour that we thought was a Noreseman 447.. spoke with the owner and discovered it was a 'homebuilt' version in aluminum. It was only when we were close along side that a vestigal chine was noticeable aft. I think it was recently launched at the time and she was lovely, and the owner/builder(?) was justifiably proud. I believe he said you modified the design for his purpose. Do you recall that?

Ron

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post #573 of 1155 Old 06-08-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Faster:
" do I recall that?"
Like, do you mean " Do you forget some of your designs Bob?"
No Faster, I do not forget my designs and I have not forgetten that alu Norseman 447 I designed for Lanny Crocker, a beet farmer from Orgeon. We became friends.

You guys amaze me.
"Bob do you recall the Valiant 40?
"Bob do you recall the Baba 30?
"Bob do you recall the Islander 28?

Yes, I recall them all. They are my children. Is that hard to grasp? I gave birth to those boats.

Dale:
You should have rowed over and introduced yourself to Dale and Tina on WILD HORSES. ( Yes I do remember designing it) They are great people and very good friends. I'm am sure they would have been very happy to have you aboard. Just tell them or anyone that " Bob sent you".

That should be interesting.
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

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Faster:
" do I recall that?"
Like, do you mean " Do you forget some of your designs Bob?"
.
Sorry... silly thing to say, of course...

Ron

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post #575 of 1155 Old 06-09-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

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Knut is correct. Atkin was inspired by Archer's designs. That's where the THISTLE and ERIC designs came from. I believe he writes about this in the IDEAL series books.

You do not have to change or "re-draw" a design to build it in lapstrake construction. It's just a builder's choice on how he wants to plank the boat.
That said because the same Captain Cicero (carvel planked) is a William Atkin design, a boat that appears to be identical, but it a lapstrake, is referred to as an Archer design (built in 1972) it is likely somewhere along the line the name of the designer was mistaken.
The Captain Cicero was originally a commission, I met up with someone who had copies of letters between the client and William Atkin during the development. So I am convinced it was not an Archer design adapted to carvel.

Last edited by wolfenzee; 06-09-2013 at 01:26 AM.
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Faster:
No problem. I was just teasing you a bit. I knew what you meant.

Wolf:
Boats can be very similar and not be from the same set of lines. I suspect that is what you are seeing here. If we had the two sets of lines I think you would see many differences in the shapes. But I'd have to have the lines first. Or, I'd have to see the boats hauled out and side by side in the yard.

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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

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Just curious, glad all those rudders don't break off, but why do so many of your boats end up on the rocks?
Ooooooooh. Ssssssss.

I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
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post #578 of 1155 Old 06-09-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

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Faster:
No problem. I was just teasing you a bit. I knew what you meant.

Wolf:
Boats can be very similar and not be from the same set of lines. I suspect that is what you are seeing here. If we had the two sets of lines I think you would see many differences in the shapes. But I'd have to have the lines first. Or, I'd have to see the boats hauled out and side by side in the yard.
Similarities between the two not only include the hull shape and specs, but deck layout, rigging, channel boards, shape of cockpit combing, deck hatch, mid ship hatch, size shape and location of chain plates, sheeting of main sheet, self tending jib boom, etc... the biggest difference I can see (than it being lapstrake) between the two is the number of port holes.

Both boats are called the "Captain Cicero" one said it was designed by Colin Archer (same exact photo with two build dates 1972 1974) Colin archer Captain Cicero sailing boat 1972 - Nettivene this is info on that boat.
The Captain Cicero I have can be found on Pat Atkin's web page Atkin & Co. - Captain Cicero. This isn't a matter of "similar lines" this is two boats that practically identical (to throw a wrench into the works my boat was built to William Atkins plans which called for carvel planking, but was built using strip planking.)

didn't see your tease till after I posed this....but it is the same boat

Last edited by wolfenzee; 06-09-2013 at 07:12 PM.
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Wolfer:
You could be right.

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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Wolf, the Finnish text translates to say, "this design is different than a Colin Archer in that it has a flat transom. This boat was designed by the American William Atkins (see website). To the best of our knowledge there were 3 built to this design. " I have no idea why the listing title mentions Colin Archer at all.


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