Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat - Page 59 - SailNet Community
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post #581 of 1155 Old 06-10-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

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Wolf, the Finnish text translates to say, "this design is different than a Colin Archer in that it has a flat transom. This boat was designed by the American William Atkins (see website). To the best of our knowledge there were 3 built to this design. " I have no idea why the listing title mentions Colin Archer at all.
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post #582 of 1155 Old 06-10-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

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The Captain Cicero I have can be found on Pat Atkin's web page Atkin & Co. - Captain Cicero. This isn't a matter of "similar lines" this is two boats that practically identical (to throw a wrench into the works my boat was built to William Atkins plans which called for carvel planking, but was built using strip planking.)

didn't see your tease till after I posed this....but it is the same boat
It's a very common problem with older designs all over the world. All too often, whenever the yacht changed hands, the seller claimed it was designed by whomever-happened-to-be-flavour-of-the-month in order to increase the yacht's profile in the eyes of potential buyers. Sometimes this was (and still is!) done merely to ensure the boat gets on a particular club's Register.. but that still doesn't make it correct.

eg. People have claimed at various stages of it's long life that the designer of my boat was either Wally Ward (a popular local yacht designer) or Laurent Giles.. Even with perfectly valid reasons for making those claims, they're still wrong.

Just be glad your yacht has been associated with two prominent yacht designers.. after all, two has to be better than one, don't you think?

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post #583 of 1155 Old 06-11-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

I have really traced mine back all the way to the letters between client and designer, then change of design name when client decided not to have it built, the builder, history builder, why he built this boat, I have met 2nd owner (George Hill) and 3rd owner (Doug Humes) and most importantly the cousin of the second owner (Ted Pike) who has known my boat for 30 years and was able to help me tune it right and tell me about it history. TO most people those names mean nothing, though to some people from this area they might
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post #584 of 1155 Old 06-11-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

This is a problem I have frequently, including tonight. People are sold a boat that is claimed to be a "Perry design" when in fact it is not. It falls to me to break the bad news to them. Had to do it to a couple tonight with chainplate issues.
"How do we fix this Bob?"
" How would I know. I didn't design your boat!"
" But the broker said,,,,,,"

In Wolfer's case with the clinker built boat maybe the name Colin Archer had more sales appeal than Bill Atkin.

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post #585 of 1155 Old 06-11-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

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This is a problem I have frequently, including tonight. People are sold a boat that is claimed to be a "Perry design" when in fact it is not. It falls to me to break the bad news to them. Had to do it to a couple tonight with chainplate issues.
"How do we fix this Bob?"
" How would I know. I didn't design your boat!"
" But the broker said,,,,,,"

In Wolfer's case with the clinker built boat maybe the name Colin Archer had more sales appeal than Bill Atkin.
Considering it was in Norway, and Norwegians are a proud people....the idea of having a boat designed a famous Norwegian yacht designer rather than
by an "American" .....yeah I can see the sales appeal.
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post #586 of 1155 Old 06-11-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

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Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
This is a problem I have frequently, including tonight. People are sold a boat that is claimed to be a "Perry design" when in fact it is not. It falls to me to break the bad news to them. Had to do it to a couple tonight with chainplate issues.
"How do we fix this Bob?"
" How would I know. I didn't design your boat!"
" But the broker said,,,,,,"

In Wolfer's case with the clinker built boat maybe the name Colin Archer had more sales appeal than Bill Atkin.
That goes the other way too you know..... I owned 31" a custom lapstrake lifeboat that was converted to a sloop with a fin keel. It was purportedly designed by Stan Huntingford. A major design flaw in the way the keel was supported was found by me in a storm in the Straits of Juan de Fuca and nearly cost me the boat.

Is it really a Stan Huntinford design? I dunno, but he's off my Christmas Card list and maybe it's really a Perry boat and that Perry guy is getting off easy...

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post #587 of 1155 Old 06-11-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

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Considering it was in Norway, and Norwegians are a proud people....the idea of having a boat designed a famous Norwegian yacht designer rather than
by an "American" .....yeah I can see the sales appeal.
That's it.

It's great that you've got the full documented history. That adds credibility, and hence value, should you ever decide to sell. Many don't - and, forgetting that people interested in buying an old wooden yacht are buying the pedigree as well as the hole-in-the-water, wonder why astute buyers run a mile...

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post #588 of 1155 Old 06-11-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

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That's it.

It's great that you've got the full documented history. That adds credibility, and hence value, should you ever decide to sell. Many don't - and, forgetting that people interested in buying an old wooden yacht are buying the pedigree as well as the hole-in-the-water, wonder why astute buyers run a mile...
Now I just have to get copies of the letter between E.B.White and William Atkin....This was supposed to be E.B.Whites dream boat named the Kathrine S. but when he decided not to have it built the name was changed to Captain Cicero.
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post #589 of 1155 Old 06-11-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

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Originally Posted by Jeff_H View Post
Wolf, the Finnish text translates to say, "this design is different than a Colin Archer in that it has a flat transom. This boat was designed by the American William Atkins (see website). To the best of our knowledge there were 3 built to this design. " I have no idea why the listing title mentions Colin Archer at all.
In some places they use "Colin Archer" as a generic name on a double ender (and classic boats in general), this is probably the explanation.

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Originally Posted by wolfenzee View Post
Considering it was in Norway, and Norwegians are a proud people....the idea of having a boat designed a famous Norwegian yacht designer rather than
by an "American" .....yeah I can see the sales appeal.
But this ad is from Finland the only thing Norwegian about that is that we have a common border in the north.

And yes Colin Archer was Norwegian, even if his name sounds more like an English name

Last edited by knuterikt; 06-11-2013 at 04:23 AM.
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

I think Knut might have it right. Calling a boat a "Colin Archer" is a bit like calling the vacuum cleaner a "Hoover". If you just insert "type" after "Colin Archer" it makes perfect sense.

Although I'm not sure how you would get away calling a boat with a transom a "Colin Archer" anything.

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