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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Marty,

I agree with you and Ron entirely that the lifting keel is excessive for most folks. But here on the East Coast, without the lifting keel there are a lot of places you just cannot go. I was amazed at the places that I can no longer get into when I shifted from my prior boat at 5'-6" to my current boat at 6'-4". On the other hand, my current boat's much greater speed puts a whole lot of new anchorages with reach for a weekend so its probably a wash. Still and all, I hated that I could not get out of the Mill Creek channel saturday morning on Memorial Day weekend since the tide was so far below normal. The lift keel would have made all the difference.

I do not know how Wolf's cabin is actually laid out. Here is the accommodations plan that Atkin's designed for the Captain Cicero.



The forward face of the cabin trunk was something that I too wrestled with. Here are three versions. The original wedge version, a version which is the square faced trunk version, and one that I will call an ode to Robert G. Henry Jr., who drew some extremely beautiful cabin trunks back in the 40's through 60's. I would be tempted to do something like the Robert Henry house, but I think the nearly plumb front looks like an anacrhonism with the rest of the boat.....






I also had put together a sheet which compared the hull forms a little...This shows the mid-ship sections and the Drawn Waterlines for the three designs.



Jeff


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post #612 of 1155 Old 06-14-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

My cabin is basically the same, forward of the mast the "vertical clearance" (not enough to say headroom)gets pretty tight, standing all the way forward on the cabin sole under the deck hatch, deck level is at waist height. Forward of the mast is used for the head (cabin trunk extending 1' in front of mast gives sitting head room on head), storage, work space, an extra bunk. Main cabin: the bunk on the stb side (which pulled out to 18" w/2" cushion) was replaced with a coffee table and ice box. Bunk on port side works as single bunk (which allows hammock) or pulls out to mast to be double. Galley counter now also uses the space behind the companionway steps...total galley is 16sqft of tongue and groove cumaroo, 4 sqft 3" thick birch and apitung cutting block and several small pieces of counter giving a total counter area of around 20sqft, two burner stove/oven and double sink...because of the 18" nav deck the galley only takes up 2 1/2' of cabin. Headroom under companionway hatch is 6'2" (24"X30"), under cold molded cabin top (no deck ribs) 5'8", under midship hatch 6'4" (24"x34"). Accommodations were low on the priority list and the boat was built and commissioned to be a single hander. Because of the huge lazarette, large amount of space dedicated to quarter deck and cockpit (and the fact that bottom of cockpit lockers only goes down as far as the bottom of the cockpit. Extending the combing back to the transom and raisng the quarter deck to make a subtle aft cabin that extends under the cockpit is not only feasible, but practical as well (and with the 7" bulwarks and being an extension of the combing it would have little effect cosmetically).

As far as the cabin trunk....my boat has a beautiful shear and the cabin top follows that, a nice touch. Atkin liked wide side decks so made the trunk a bit narrower than I would have liked 52" wide trunk (at the widest) w/27" side decks, if the side decks were a couple of inches narrower you wouldn't notice it, at least as not as much as you would below decks

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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Thanks Jeff... version #3 looks like a good compromise.. I like #2 too, but would probably have at least the eyebrow line of the cabin trunk more closely follow the sheer.. I think that would remove a bit of the starkness as is and go back to that more traditional appearance.

What fun!!

Ron

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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

I like Jeff's original cabin trunk.
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

I like Jeff's version. It doesn't look as traditional to have the sloped cabin front, but it's a good use of space (nicer than bumping your head on an interior step) and makes for a comfortable place to lie down on the foredeck.

I also like his interior, though I think I'd rather merge the v-berth cabin into the area between the two forward bulkheads (basically dropping the forward most bulkhead). I also like having a bit more headroom at the head end of the V-berth so you don't knock yourself there. I wonder if sliding the V-berth back 6 inches could provide that, make it more comfortable for two adults and leave room for a chain locker up front?

I like aft heads and transom hung rudders.

I'd prefer that one of the two fuel tanks be a lot smaller (like 4 to 6 gallons). Most of the year I'm just day sailing (once or twice a week) and it takes me 6 months or longer to go through a 14 gallon tank of fuel. I like to keep my fuel tank full to reduce algae growth, but that means that I keep a lot of stale fuel around.

Let me know when I can buy one! It's got the best of what I like about my Pearson 28-2 with some smart improvements and the more traditional look that I prefer.

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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

funny how one sees different perspectives on things.....with idea's like this.

Wolf would widen the cabin taking some of the side deck away. he cruises. I race a bit, I would narrow the cabin so I had that extra 2-4" of side deck for rail meat! Inside space while important, not as much for me as him in some senses.

The dagger board.....again, I can see why in some area's of the world, others like here, not as much. If I were to build and potentially take this boat around the world lets say, I would get the dagger board just so I could potentially deal with a shoal area a bit better! Even here, I could see it working to a point. But fixed probably being a bunch cheaper to build......

The cabin trunk, I would go with the the longer slope, again, when one is running up and down the foredeck a longer slope seems to be better than a step/straight up front. It does have a nice look to a degree too.

As noted, one is looking at this from a "my" perspective, not Jeff's as this boat was drawn for. Mine would be a bit different I am sure.

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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

It makes no sense to have a cabin trunk any wider that the widest part of your cabin sole. Most cabin trunks are to wide but some builders like that because it gves the boat a more "open feeling". There is nothing like big, broad side decks to make a boat easy to work and at the same time give it a nice, svelte look.
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

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Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
It makes no sense to have a cabin trunk any wider that the widest part of your cabin sole. Most cabin trunks are to wide but some builders like that because it gves the boat a more "open feeling". There is nothing like big, broad side decks to make a boat easy to work and at the same time give it a nice, svelte look.
my cabin sole is 24" wide (that would make for 3' side decks and a cabin trunk the width of the present hatch openings). My idea was to have the sides of the cabin even with the backs of the settees. The only way I can sit up straight now is not to have my back against anything. My side decks are close to 28"...shrouds are on channel boards so are 6" outside rails. A couple of inches less on the side decks would be twice that below decks. I live on board but do like the large side decks, so did Atkin (he said "If you can't have side decks of 18" or more don't have any at all"). Granted with inside grab rails at the base of the trunk you can even get a hold at a nasty heel. Everything in a boat is a compromise, a balance between what works one way and another. Looking at my boat closely (as this thread has caused me to do) it is apparent this hull had it's root in a larger vessel (actually a New England fishing schooner). With the exception of hatches it would have been a flush or close to flush deck and still had room below decks. My present side deck is almost as wide as my bunk.
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

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Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
It makes no sense to have a cabin trunk any wider that the widest part of your cabin sole. Most cabin trunks are to wide but some builders like that because it gves the boat a more "open feeling". There is nothing like big, broad side decks to make a boat easy to work and at the same time give it a nice, svelte look.
My first boat had 2 ft wide side decks and I took their convenience for granted. For my next boat I went for 18 inch wide side decks, a decision ended up greatly regretting. For my current boat I went for 2 ft side decks again , and lived happily ever after.
Narrow side decks are OK ;at the dock or in the boat show, but when the boat heels, the top of the lifeline ends up inboard of the cabin side ,and going forward without having to walk on the cabin top is acrobatic to say the least. Its like running and obstacle course.
Many stock boats, designed for boat show priorities, are obstacle courses on the side decks . If you want the feel of a large interior ,mirrors strategically hung ,will give you that.

Brent Swain, Boat designer, Builder, and author of "Origami Metal Boatbuilding"

Last edited by Brent Swain; 06-15-2013 at 05:39 PM.
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

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Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
My first boat had 2 ft wide side decks and I took their convenience for granted. For my next boat I went for 18 inch wide side decks, a decision ended up greatly regretting. For my current boat I went for 2 ft side decks again , and lived happily ever after.
Narrow side decks are OK ;at the dock or in the boat show, but when the boat heels, the top of the lifeline ends up inboard of the cabin side ,and going forward without having to walk on the cabin top is acrobatic to say the least. Its like running and obstacle course.
Many stock boats, designed for boat show priorities, are obstacle courses on the side decks . If you want the feel of a large interior ,mirrors strategically hung ,will give you that.
I wasn't talking about narrower side decks on my boat, just 3"narrower than 28" inch i have....that would still be 25" side decks but the extra 3" x 2 would give me and addition 6" of room below decks. Mirrors give an optically larger interior, the extra 3" would allow me to put my back against the settee back with out hitting my head.
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