Originally Posted by bobperry
A roachless, battenless mainsail will noit do anything to reduce helm. It may even make it worse.
But from ewhat I see on your web site you are the king of the cheap. That's not the market I try to appeal to. You can have it. You and I have some of our priorities in different places. I like my boats to be beautiful and graceful and still make it around Cape Horn. You don't appear to care abouit aesthetics at all. Thaty's fine, we have different approaches. I certainly do not want water rushing upwards on my rudders. I want the water flow to be perpendicular to the stock or as close as I can get it. You can call it "trendy" but I call it efficient and in accord with the choice of foil.
Many clients have eliminated a heavy weather helm by eliminating the roach. Kinda completely blows your theory. Theory and reality can be a long way apart.
Give a boat a beautiful sheer line, a good profile, and well matched deck structures, and you can have a beautiful boat, regardless of how much money you throw at her, or dont throw at her. These things add nothing to the cost of a boat. Give her an ugly sheerline and profile and she will be ugly, regardless of how much money you throw at her.
I place a high value on aesthetics, as do you, and many people tell me my boats are beautiful, as are yours.
There is no excuse for a boat being ugly, regardless of the amount of money one has to spend on her. An ugly shape has nothing to do with the cost of the boat. We have all seen some very expensive ugly boats and some very attractive low budget boats. There is also a beauty in function and practicality, especialy while you are enjoying its other benefits..
I dont find flimsy teak or plastic more attractive than welded stainless or aluminium. I dont find flimsy bolted down bow cleats more attractive than a proper stainless mooring bit, especially on a rough night when it is the only thing keeping me out of the surf. It takes cruising experience for a designer to appreciate that kind of beauty. Without it he is only quoting what he has read somewhere.
Such yachty absurdities such as a teak deck , flimsy teak hatches and skylights, and flimsy yachtie hardware, look pretty ugly after a bitt of rough use. I have seen such " decorative priority" boats leaving BC , looking immaculate, but by the time they get to New Zealand they look rough as hell, while the more practical, easier to maintain boats with workboat priorities can do the same trip, and still look immaculate at the end of the voyage. Your boats often contain such yachtie absurdities, mine, rarely .I dont recommend them, you dont discourage them.
"You only get what you pay for " is a used car salesmans line which has been used to sell a lot of lemons and flimsy yachtie hardware to the gullible. The best gear is usually that what you make for yourself. Two doctors I worked for said my $2 sheet blocks are something of which a multi millionaire couldn't buy a better one. My $100 roller furling is far more reliable than commercially made ones costing thousands of dollars, as is my windvane , anchor winch hatches , etc etc. The thinking and expereince which go into a boat do far more to determine how good a boat is, than the amount of money one throws at a boat.
With the rudder so close to the stern wave, with water rising up into the stern wave there is zero chance of it flowing perpendicular to the waterline at that poiunt.
Donald Street asked several designers why they design rudders with a reverse rake on them, despite their having been proven to be far less effective and far more prone to stalling and the only answer he could get was "They look fast and sell boats." Such are the values of some mass market, production boat designers.
One of the things which shock steel boat cruisers, going for a sail on a plastic boat, is the comparative flimsyness of everything on a plastic boat.