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  #681  
Old 06-20-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
I place a high value on aesthetics...
No Brent, you don't. To wit...look at your designs for the roller furling, the windlass, the blocks, the companionway hatch.

If you think these are aesthetically high value...you're seriously doing it all wrong.

You place the highest value on pure function. Form is not even on your radar.

Now, this is perfectly fine. It's your thing. But, please, for the love of monkeys, stick with the facts. You only make yourself look very silly when you try to be all things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
You are right!
Everyone I know who has eliminated his roach has drastically reduced his weather helm. Theorizing on how the sun rises in the west and sets in the east, wont make it true, no matter how much math and theory you use to prove it. I prefer experience over such theory.
Brent, the point is, why were your clients experiencing such bad weather helm in the first place? Have you designed a very heavy boat that can only handle a very inefficient sail? Is that good sailboat design?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
I have seen such " decorative priority" boats leaving BC , looking immaculate, but by the time they get to New Zealand they look rough as hell, while the more practical, easier to maintain boats with workboat priorities can do the same trip, and still look immaculate at the end of the voyage. Your boats often contain such yachtie absurdities, mine, rarely .I dont recommend them, you dont discourage them.
It blows my mind that you have the arrogance to criticize another designer's boats on aesthetic grounds and "use of yachtie absurdities". Have you ever considered that the "workboat priority" steeler arriving in NZ looks just as did when it left port because, maybe, it looked pretty damn skanky when it left port in the first place?

Your grip on reality is tenuous at best.

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Originally Posted by wolfenzee View Post
Some where I read that a battenless/roachless sail helps to reduce weather helm.....the theory being a less efficient sail gave less lift so there was less effort behind the center of lateral resistance....
This is the problem with this thread. "Less efficient" is "good enough". That's not a "dream" - that's a fear of going to sleep. There's no way to advance design or technology when this mindset is the detente.
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Last edited by smackdaddy; 06-21-2013 at 12:43 PM.
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  #682  
Old 06-21-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Well Brent, if they are all designed for a roachless main why so many of your clients having a problem with "heavy weather helm" your words.
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  #683  
Old 06-21-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Brent
Go ahead and delete your posts. I remember that you said your clients had a problem with "heavy weather helm" Why am I not surprised? Sure you can reduce sail area and make a small adjustment in helm pressure. Great. I would prefer to not reduce sail area and have a well balanced boat.


I am truly sorry your clients have helm issues. Keep at it. Deleting will not solve design issues.
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  #684  
Old 06-21-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
Then why doesnt that happen to your battenless headsail?
Ummmmm, my 110 jib has 3 battens in it. My next one might even have a full one at the top! so where is this jibs do not have battens part of the equation?

Reality is, jibs do and WILL wear out before a main will generally speaking. Battens may be doing something eh!?!?!? but probably not in this persons brain........

Oh, he is using cotton cloth sails too?!?!?!?!?

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Old 06-21-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
No Brent, you don't. To wit...look at your designs for the roller furling, the windlass, the blocks, the companionway hatch.

If you think these are aesthetically high value...you're seriously doing it all wrong.

You place the highest value on pure function. Form is not even on your radar.

Now, this is perfectly fine. It's your thing. But, please, for the love of monkeys, stick with the facts. You only make yourself look very silly when you try to be all things.



Brent, the point is, why were your clients experiencing such bad weather helm in the first place? Have you designed a very heavy boat that can only handle a very inefficient sail? Is that good sailboat design?



It blows my mind that you have the arrogance to criticize another designer's boats on aesthetic grounds and "use of yachty" stuff. Have you ever considered that the "workboat priority" steeler arriving in NZ looks just as did when it left port because, maybe, it looked pretty damn skanky when it left port in the first place?

Your grip on reality is tenuous at best.



This is the problem with this thread. "Less efficient" is "good enough". That's not a "dream" - that's a fear of going to sleep. There's no way to advance design or technology when this mindset is the detente.
I also said after saying that a less efficient main reduced weather helm.....that there are better ways to balance a rig.
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  #686  
Old 06-21-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Some racing boats have used a batten or two in their jibs to gain a little unmeasured sail area. It makes for a nice sail but you can't roll it up.

Some loose footed mains have a vertical center batten in the foot roach to support that roach. I prefer a loose footed main for it's shape although on a bigger boat it might make for a harder sail to furl on the boom. On my 26'er it really didn't pose any problem.
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Congratulations to my 63'er ICON for winning the Van Isle 360 Race this week. This is a great race, being several legs as the boats race daily around Vancouver Island. This year ICON and FLASH, a well sailed TP52 battled it out for top spot but ICON smoked FLASH on the last day as the boats had a brisk run down the outside of the island and back to Victoria.
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  #688  
Old 06-21-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Some racing boats have used a batten or two in their jibs to gain a little unmeasured sail area. It makes for a nice sail but you can't roll it up.
My AP lapper (roughly 111%) has battens and some roach which I wanted to to improve shape and reaching ability. Its on a furler and has 'furlable' battens which fold flat when rolled on the furler.

This has to be my favorite sail ever. It has this wildly wide range of down to about 2-3 knots and well up into the 20 knot range. Its a slightly full cut jib cut for a lot of headstay sag.

What I love about this sail is that in light air, its flying shape is like the leading edge of a #1 genoa and the battens trick it into acting like a larger sail shape aft in terms of trailing edge shape. As the breeze picks up, removing headstay sag and adding halyard tension, flattens it to be a nicely shaped #3. The sail is horizontal panel, kevlar-mylar and has held up very well with a lot of hours of hard use. Its light enough to hold its shape in light winds, and the kevlar nicely manages stretch in a serious breeze. It really is the "bee's knees" with a single reefed mainsail when the breeze is in the low-to mid 20 kt range...

Jeff
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Old 06-21-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Congratulations to my 63'er ICON for winning the Van Isle 360 Race this week. This is a great race, being several legs as the boats race daily around Vancouver Island. This year ICON and FLASH, a well sailed TP52 battled it out for top spot but ICON smoked FLASH on the last day as the boats had a brisk run down the outside of the island and back to Victoria.
Now that's a boat.

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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Bob... slightly off topic but is 'Meridian' still around??

Congrats on Icon's win!!
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