Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat - Page 69 - SailNet Community
 245Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #681 of 1155 Old 06-20-2013
Last Man Standing
 
smackdaddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 14,168
Thanks: 136
Thanked 125 Times in 118 Posts
Rep Power: 9
     
Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
I place a high value on aesthetics...
No Brent, you don't. To wit...look at your designs for the roller furling, the windlass, the blocks, the companionway hatch.

If you think these are aesthetically high value...you're seriously doing it all wrong.

You place the highest value on pure function. Form is not even on your radar.

Now, this is perfectly fine. It's your thing. But, please, for the love of monkeys, stick with the facts. You only make yourself look very silly when you try to be all things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
You are right!
Everyone I know who has eliminated his roach has drastically reduced his weather helm. Theorizing on how the sun rises in the west and sets in the east, wont make it true, no matter how much math and theory you use to prove it. I prefer experience over such theory.
Brent, the point is, why were your clients experiencing such bad weather helm in the first place? Have you designed a very heavy boat that can only handle a very inefficient sail? Is that good sailboat design?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
I have seen such " decorative priority" boats leaving BC , looking immaculate, but by the time they get to New Zealand they look rough as hell, while the more practical, easier to maintain boats with workboat priorities can do the same trip, and still look immaculate at the end of the voyage. Your boats often contain such yachtie absurdities, mine, rarely .I dont recommend them, you dont discourage them.
It blows my mind that you have the arrogance to criticize another designer's boats on aesthetic grounds and "use of yachtie absurdities". Have you ever considered that the "workboat priority" steeler arriving in NZ looks just as did when it left port because, maybe, it looked pretty damn skanky when it left port in the first place?

Your grip on reality is tenuous at best.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfenzee View Post
Some where I read that a battenless/roachless sail helps to reduce weather helm.....the theory being a less efficient sail gave less lift so there was less effort behind the center of lateral resistance....
This is the problem with this thread. "Less efficient" is "good enough". That's not a "dream" - that's a fear of going to sleep. There's no way to advance design or technology when this mindset is the detente.
JomsViking, mitiempo and SloopJonB like this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

S/V Dawn Treader - 1989 Hunter Legend 40

Last edited by smackdaddy; 06-21-2013 at 12:43 PM.
smackdaddy is online now  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #682 of 1155 Old 06-21-2013
grumpy old man
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,976
Thanks: 1
Thanked 94 Times in 90 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Well Brent, if they are all designed for a roachless main why so many of your clients having a problem with "heavy weather helm" your words.

Please visit my blog. It's fun to read.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Bob's Blog ....

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Please also visit my new web site
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
bobperry is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #683 of 1155 Old 06-21-2013
grumpy old man
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,976
Thanks: 1
Thanked 94 Times in 90 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Brent
Go ahead and delete your posts. I remember that you said your clients had a problem with "heavy weather helm" Why am I not surprised? Sure you can reduce sail area and make a small adjustment in helm pressure. Great. I would prefer to not reduce sail area and have a well balanced boat.


I am truly sorry your clients have helm issues. Keep at it. Deleting will not solve design issues.
JomsViking likes this.

Please visit my blog. It's fun to read.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Bob's Blog ....

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Please also visit my new web site
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
bobperry is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #684 of 1155 Old 06-21-2013
Senior Member
 
blt2ski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 6,849
Thanks: 0
Thanked 26 Times in 25 Posts
Rep Power: 11
 
Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
Then why doesnt that happen to your battenless headsail?
Ummmmm, my 110 jib has 3 battens in it. My next one might even have a full one at the top! so where is this jibs do not have battens part of the equation?

Reality is, jibs do and WILL wear out before a main will generally speaking. Battens may be doing something eh!?!?!? but probably not in this persons brain........

Oh, he is using cotton cloth sails too?!?!?!?!?

Marty

She drives me boat,
I drives me dinghy!
blt2ski is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #685 of 1155 Old 06-21-2013
Senior Member
 
wolfenzee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: S/V Waltzing Matilda, Port Ludlow, WA (NW Puget Sound)
Posts: 497
Thanks: 2
Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post
Rep Power: 7
 
Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
No Brent, you don't. To wit...look at your designs for the roller furling, the windlass, the blocks, the companionway hatch.

If you think these are aesthetically high value...you're seriously doing it all wrong.

You place the highest value on pure function. Form is not even on your radar.

Now, this is perfectly fine. It's your thing. But, please, for the love of monkeys, stick with the facts. You only make yourself look very silly when you try to be all things.



Brent, the point is, why were your clients experiencing such bad weather helm in the first place? Have you designed a very heavy boat that can only handle a very inefficient sail? Is that good sailboat design?



It blows my mind that you have the arrogance to criticize another designer's boats on aesthetic grounds and "use of yachty" stuff. Have you ever considered that the "workboat priority" steeler arriving in NZ looks just as did when it left port because, maybe, it looked pretty damn skanky when it left port in the first place?

Your grip on reality is tenuous at best.



This is the problem with this thread. "Less efficient" is "good enough". That's not a "dream" - that's a fear of going to sleep. There's no way to advance design or technology when this mindset is the detente.
I also said after saying that a less efficient main reduced weather helm.....that there are better ways to balance a rig.
wolfenzee is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #686 of 1155 Old 06-21-2013
grumpy old man
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,976
Thanks: 1
Thanked 94 Times in 90 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Some racing boats have used a batten or two in their jibs to gain a little unmeasured sail area. It makes for a nice sail but you can't roll it up.

Some loose footed mains have a vertical center batten in the foot roach to support that roach. I prefer a loose footed main for it's shape although on a bigger boat it might make for a harder sail to furl on the boom. On my 26'er it really didn't pose any problem.

Please visit my blog. It's fun to read.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Bob's Blog ....

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Please also visit my new web site
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
bobperry is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #687 of 1155 Old 06-21-2013
grumpy old man
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,976
Thanks: 1
Thanked 94 Times in 90 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Congratulations to my 63'er ICON for winning the Van Isle 360 Race this week. This is a great race, being several legs as the boats race daily around Vancouver Island. This year ICON and FLASH, a well sailed TP52 battled it out for top spot but ICON smoked FLASH on the last day as the boats had a brisk run down the outside of the island and back to Victoria.
Attached Thumbnails
iconblasting.jpg  

Please visit my blog. It's fun to read.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Bob's Blog ....

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Please also visit my new web site
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
bobperry is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #688 of 1155 Old 06-21-2013 Thread Starter
Moderator
 
Jeff_H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Annapolis, Md
Posts: 6,819
Thanks: 5
Thanked 133 Times in 106 Posts
Rep Power: 10
     
Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Some racing boats have used a batten or two in their jibs to gain a little unmeasured sail area. It makes for a nice sail but you can't roll it up.
My AP lapper (roughly 111%) has battens and some roach which I wanted to to improve shape and reaching ability. Its on a furler and has 'furlable' battens which fold flat when rolled on the furler.

This has to be my favorite sail ever. It has this wildly wide range of down to about 2-3 knots and well up into the 20 knot range. Its a slightly full cut jib cut for a lot of headstay sag.

What I love about this sail is that in light air, its flying shape is like the leading edge of a #1 genoa and the battens trick it into acting like a larger sail shape aft in terms of trailing edge shape. As the breeze picks up, removing headstay sag and adding halyard tension, flattens it to be a nicely shaped #3. The sail is horizontal panel, kevlar-mylar and has held up very well with a lot of hours of hard use. Its light enough to hold its shape in light winds, and the kevlar nicely manages stretch in a serious breeze. It really is the "bee's knees" with a single reefed mainsail when the breeze is in the low-to mid 20 kt range...

Jeff
smackdaddy likes this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Curmudgeon at Large- and rhinestone in the rough, sailing my Farr 11.6 on the Chesapeake Bay
Jeff_H is online now  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #689 of 1155 Old 06-21-2013
Last Man Standing
 
smackdaddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 14,168
Thanks: 136
Thanked 125 Times in 118 Posts
Rep Power: 9
     
Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Congratulations to my 63'er ICON for winning the Van Isle 360 Race this week. This is a great race, being several legs as the boats race daily around Vancouver Island. This year ICON and FLASH, a well sailed TP52 battled it out for top spot but ICON smoked FLASH on the last day as the boats had a brisk run down the outside of the island and back to Victoria.
Now that's a boat.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

S/V Dawn Treader - 1989 Hunter Legend 40
smackdaddy is online now  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #690 of 1155 Old 06-21-2013
Just another Moderator
 
Faster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Westminster, BC
Posts: 16,385
Thanks: 101
Thanked 304 Times in 294 Posts
Rep Power: 10
     
Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Bob... slightly off topic but is 'Meridian' still around??

Congrats on Icon's win!!

Ron

1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
Capt G E Ericson (from "The Cruel Sea" by Nicholas Monsarrat)
Faster is online now  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bob Perry's Tragic Loss smackdaddy General Discussion (sailing related) 16 07-09-2013 10:57 AM
What's your dream boat? dovetailnj General Discussion (sailing related) 58 07-08-2013 12:48 PM
What's your dream boat??? DavidB.UK General Discussion (sailing related) 4 06-22-2013 04:06 PM
Perry's new Sunday blog bobperry General Discussion (sailing related) 12 11-07-2011 06:05 PM
A boat dream! pjboots Boat Review and Purchase Forum 28 03-22-2007 03:10 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome