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  #711  
Old 06-21-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

My clients are almost the same. They look around and don't see what they want in the production boat world. But there is a difference Brent, my clients go to a competant, skilled and experienced boatbuilder to have the boat of their dreams built. Maybe all your clients are boatbuilders Brent. Mine aren't.

The s.s. fin I was talking about is a high aspect ratio fin with no taper. It could not be more different structurally than any of your keels Brent.

Can't help you with the paint question. Buy my buddy was the BN on ICON for years. I'll check and see what he knows about ss and paint.
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Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat-icon-keel-blank-2.jpg   Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat-icon-keel-blank.jpg   Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat-icon-bulbfin1.jpg  
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  #712  
Old 06-21-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
You can see photos of my hatches, windlass, blocks , boats construction sequence, etc on the origamiboats site ( yahoo groups)
You can see Smackdaddy's condemnation of those who quit work to go cruising, on cruising.stuffiminto.com
Your refusal to provide even the scantest evidence to back up your claims really puzzles me. But, if you insist...I'll help you out...I'm just that kind of guy.

Your general premises are as follows:

1. You put a very high value on aesthetics.
2. Your boats are for the non-wealthy 99%.
3. Everything you do is superior to modern design and technology.

As for aesthetics:



(Wait - are those battens? WTH? Those idiots!)





Again, aesthetics are a very subjective thing. So I'll leave any conclusions to the great SN audience. But, personally, I would definitely not put the aesthetics of the boats/gear above (or below) on par with any modern sailing yacht - or any modern piece of equipment.

But, more importantly, let's look at your central claim that you are the designer for the masses by looking at listings for some of your yachts:

$31,000
1995 31' Swain
1995 Custom steel Brent Swain 31 sailboat for sale in Outside United States




$39,000
1997 27' Swain Motorsailer
Harbour Yacht Sales Ltd.




$56.000
2002 ??' Swain
?Dove IV? Brent Swain 2002--USED BOATS--skippers Houseboat



$76,000
1986 37' Swain
Used Brent Swain 12m for Sale | Yachts For Sale | Yachthub










$40,000
1998 36' Swain Cutter
1998 brent swain 36ft steel cutter brent swain 36ft steel cutter sailboat for sale in Outside United States





$89,000
1996 37' Swain
1996 Swain 37 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com



So, in a nutshell, between $30K-$40K for a sub-30' boat. And between $40k-$89K for a ~37' boat. That's kind of steep. How exactly is that serving the 99%? I definitely couldn't have gotten what I wanted in my budget with one of your boats.

So, aesthetics and "affordability" seem to be questionable.

As for the technology issues, I'll leave it to you to look through the equipment lists on these boats to determine how many of your clients eschew the "yachtie absurdities" of technology and convenience.

What should we look at next?

(PS - As for the things you said I said on stuff - what the hell are you talking about? My telling Sully he should sell his kit and buy a smaller boat so that HE CAN ACTUALLY GO SAILING instead of putting another 3-5 years and tens/hundreds of thousands into a build that's not going to have great results? Sorry dude. Try again.)
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Last edited by smackdaddy; 06-21-2013 at 09:11 PM.
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  #713  
Old 06-21-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by JomsViking View Post
So we agree.
I took the Liberty of removing the rest of your post, as that was basically just a bashing of other boats than yours, and did not reflect on the fact that I - and many others - cruise GRP boats without to many worries in areas not too different from BC.

Just an example:
SY/SOL.dk

(BTW they are way out of my League, but very nice people)
Just stating the facts, as given to me by those who try to live on fibreglass boats thru a BC winter. I wouldn't want them to suffer, from not being allowed their experences. Maybe fibreglass boat sellers dont want them to know.
Censorship sells? Fairness doesn't count?
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  #714  
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Wow Smackers, that was a bit grim.

I can say with utmost certainty that Brent and I will never have to compete for clients.

And as for Adam being blind, I award you Brent, yet again, The Bob Perry Slow Cooker trophy otherwise known as "the crock".
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  #715  
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
Smackdaddy has been critical on other sites of anyone who challenges the notion that only the rich should be allowed to own good boats and cruise freely. On other sites, he has stated that he considers it "immoral " for anyone who doesn't have a lot of money, to find less expensive ways of going cruising ,and doing so before acumulating a lot of money. He promotes the notion that we should all be morally obliged to live cookie cutter, urban lives, and squander the worlds resources as quickly as possible.
I'm still just trying to figure out where he comes up with this crap. You have to be extremely committed to misinterpret and misquote stuff this thoroughly. It's impressive in its own strange way.

BTW - did he actually say Adam pooped his pants?
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  #716  
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Smackers:
I think, if I recall from days of marriage councelling, this is what you call "projecting".
I sure as hell don't have time, inclination or imagination for manufacturing class warfare in yachting.

He was blind AH. He couldn't find the dunny. And anyway, they didn't have pants to poop back then. I think they just wedged a beaver pelt in their butt crack and called it good.

GENESIS 2, no mention of Adam being blind, but he was tone deaf and gullible.
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
Just stating the facts, as given to me by those who try to live on fibreglass boats thru a BC winter. I wouldn't want them to suffer, from not being allowed their experences. Maybe fibreglass boat sellers dont want them to know.
Censorship sells? Fairness doesn't count?
Facts that Count - as opposed to the "facts" as provided by myself and others cruising in GRP boats? And how come it's always third-person evidence you have re. this?
Yes GRP boats needs insulation, but so does steel and Alu and then steel rots away behind the insulation.

But I accept that you are knowledgeable and skilled, why don't you accept that others have valid skills and experiences?

Re. censorship and fairness: I don't see the censorship and unfairness from anyone else than yourself, repeating the same bashing over and over again, not accepting Scientific evidence (as presented by Bob Perry) while not providing any documentary evidence yourself.

You design and build boats for the overly paranoid willing to sacrifice looks and 'performance' and pay more than those of us that are willing to join the thousand others that dare cruise cheaper and more efficiently in great GRP boats.

No offence meant, and I bet we'd agree on a lot of topics - If you come over here I'll buy you a beer (and race your boat
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Joms:
There seems to be an attitude expressed by some here that if you don't do it my way you are a fool. My way is the only right way and your way is stupid. I've made my living adapting my design talents to accomodating different aproaches to sailing. They are all "right" for the individual client. There are lots of ways to enjoy sailing. I really don't care so much about how people enjoy sailing. I am certainly not going to get judgmental over it. I try to keep my narrow mind open at all times.
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Thumbs up Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Joms:
There seems to be an attitude expressed by some here that if you don't do it my way you are a fool. My way is the only right way and your way is stupid. I've made my living adapting my design talents to accomodating different aproaches to sailing. They are all "right" for the individual client. There are lots of ways to enjoy sailing. I really don't care so much about how people enjoy sailing. I am certainly not going to get judgmental over it. I try to keep my narrow mind open at all times.
Almost fell into that trap myself as I felt a Little annoyed.

Having been youngest man on a fishing Vessel I hate rust. But have nothing against steel besides that

I recently read through this thread and want to thank everyone for their contributions - the amount of Work put into this is great for everyone interested in yacht design. Special thanks to Jeff, Wolfenzee and You.

/Joms
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Would note most new construction is cored. Mine has closed cell non structural insulation from waterline up and divynicell cored decks. Most others are fully cored. This povides near absence of sweating in moderate climes and considerable "R" value decreasing heating/cooling needs. Using a basic heat pump systems heating/cooling costs are kept down as efficiency is improved. Most modern construction has water tight bulkhead aft of bow and with current glass (or other fabric) re reinforced plastic construction hulls of equivalent strength at less weight then Brent's designs are the norm.
Know I'm warm (or cool if needed) and dry in my boat with less rust/galvanic corrosion to worry about. Think Brent's comments are cold and all wet. Love to see him on a Waterline or Boreal so he could get a sense of what's feasible in metal.
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