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  #731  
Old 06-22-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Stock production boats do fill a niche, and they have never been cheaper. You dont have to live on one long to get your money back in saved rent fees. Friends went to the Caribean and bought a cheap plastic boat, and had their own boat in the Caribean, a disposable, and after a few weeks , they were financially ahead of the cost of a hotel room . I have heard that there is whole fleet of such boats which change hands there every season. I have advised people wanting to try sailing, to buy a palastic cheapie and try it out. However, if you plan to live aboard long term in colder latitudes, and cruise year round in log strewn BC waters, or offshore long term, none of my clients, including those who started out in stock plastic boats considered it a reasonable option, and all have swithced to steel boats, with no regrets. There is also the option of buying an older boat with a good rig, gear and engine and transfernig it to a new hull. A freind was given and older, write off hull with a good rig , sails winches, etc etc, saving himself a fortune . He is installing it on his new BS Heretic 36
What does piss me off is when people of low income are conned into believing the price tag has anything to do with how good a piece of gear is, in functional terms. When someone says "Cheap" I interpret that to mean "Resourceful" or" Environmentaly responsible " given that ones personal environmental footprint is measured by how much money one goes thru. The opposite, a big spender, can be intepreted as "Environmentally irresponsible."
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  #732  
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

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Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
I've been thinking about a new car for 2 years. I've looked at a lot of cars. I have now found the car in a recent Motor Trend magazine. This care will give me a distinct ride that will express my individuality and style. It's the new, special order only, Biturbo Mercedes E63 AMG wagon. It's very, very powerful, looks beautiful, has lots of room and it really says "Bob" all over it. It has red brake calipers. I really want it.

Problem is to express my individualism in a car and in a way the suits me will cost me $95,000. Can't afford it. My Subaru Outback cookie cutter wagon looks just fine to me. Does the job. I'll just have to express my individualism by wearing my hair funny.
My point exactly! Being unrealistic about what one can or cannot afford has killed too many cruising dreams. That is why I have dedicated so much effort to providing more affordable options for low budget cruisers, dealing with the two biggest obstacles to realizing cruising dreams for most wanabe cruisers, money and time, and have been vehemently attacked for doing so, often by other designers, builders, and salesmen of expensive gear, and their agents, who make no effort at trying to resolve these two biggest hurdles. If they ever did, instead of blindly advocating what so many cant afford , boaters would all be better off.
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  #733  
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

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Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
My clients are almost the same. They look around and don't see what they want in the production boat world. But there is a difference Brent, my clients go to a competant, skilled and experienced boatbuilder to have the boat of their dreams built. Maybe all your clients are boatbuilders Brent. Mine aren't.

The s.s. fin I was talking about is a high aspect ratio fin with no taper. It could not be more different structurally than any of your keels Brent.

Can't help you with the paint question. Buy my buddy was the BN on ICON for years. I'll check and see what he knows about ss and paint.

I often help my clients get the basic shell together and they finish the rest some going from unskilled labourers to qualified, highly paid tradesmen in the proccess. My clients are those who want to build their own boat but sometimes need me or one of my freinds briefly to get the shell together. Some times they call me back to help jumpstart the detailing. Retired now, dont want any job which I cant do in two days. Full pension soon.
Between the book the video and plans, no one has had any problem doing it all themselves, its that simple.
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Some recently offered me a 'free' Pacific 30.I looked at it and took inventory of what it had and what needed changing.It had a solid hull and a decent rig,alright sails and some good lewmar winches.That was it.It needed a new interior,headliner,ports.Hatches.It had a 8hp Saildrive kit with a honda gas engine, busted fuel pump, A really lovely propane system that looked it was put together by rabid squirles,the propane tank in the lazerette.Lots of dirt and crud to clean out.It would cost me a grand just to hall it out here and salvage the good stuff.Then I would have to dispose of the hull.I was in the Oakland estuary the other day with a friend who was looking at a Brown Searunner 37.It was way to far gone, plywood rotting off the deck.A delamination festival.The Marina it was in was pretty decrepid to.The whole area is slated for re-devolopment.I saw a Wiley hawkfarm and 2 other boat anchored near the embankment going to seed but definately salvageable.That Marina had at least a dozen good boats in various states of neglect.That will probably be free when the construction starts over there.
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

I wasn't talking about cookie cutter boats...anything that will allow someone to get out on the water is great. I was talking about a cookie cutter mentality in our culture.
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

jak:
So If I read between the lines I take it you are not going to buy me that Mercedes.
You could at least be a man and say it up front.
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
Stock produtioin boats do fill a niche, and they have never been cheaper. You dont have to live on one long to get your money back in saved rent fees. Friends went to the Caribean and bought a cheap plastic boat, and had their own boat in the Caribean, a disposable, and after a few weeks , they were financially ahead of the cost of a hotel room . I have heard that there is whole fleet of such boats which change hands there every season. I have advised people wanting to try sailing, to buy a palastic cheapie and try it out. However, if you plan to live aboard long term in colder latitudes, and cruise year round in log strewn BC waters, or offshore long term, none of my clients, including those who started out in stock plastic boats considered it a reasonable option, and all have swithced to steel boats, with no regrets. There is also the option of buying an older boat with a good rig, gear and engine and transfernig it to a new hull. A freind was given and older, write off hull with a good rig , sails winches, etc etc, saving himself a fortune . He is installing it on his new BS Heretic 36
What does piss me off is when people of low income are conned into believing the price tag has anything to do with how good a piece of gear is, in functional terms. When someone says "Cheap" I interpret that to mean "Resourceful" or" Environmentaly responsible " given that ones personal environmental footprint is measured by how much money one goes thru. The opposite, a big spender, can be intepreted as "Environmentally irresponsible."
I think most of this is actually a good post. I even liked it!

Brent, roughly how much would it take to build one of your 36's - start to finish and ready to cruise?
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

What I was talking about, in agreement with something Bob was saying, was the weekend sailors who were convinced that there way was right and everything else is wrong....there opinions being strengthened by the "cookie cutter culture".
There are alot of older production boats that have gone on the market for very low price that have made sailing possible for many people....what I was talking about was marketing trying to make people think they need a 6 figure boat to enjoy sailing when

Last edited by wolfenzee; 06-22-2013 at 09:26 PM.
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

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....................
There are alot of older production boats that have gone on the market for very low price that have made sailing possible for many people....what I was talking about was marketing trying to make people think they need a 6 figure boat to enjoy sailing when
You mean I can enjoy sailing with a 6 figure boat! No Kidding! I was told I needed AT LEAST a 7 figure boat to enjoy this sport! KEWL, I can get a cheaper boat now! hot diggity dog! or some such thing!

I still remember sailing my Glen-L 8 ball around the north end of lk washington from my neighbors dock to sand point and back, trying to chase C-larks and lightnings racing in that part of the lake. Along with every other boat I was trying to beat, not that I could in an 8' pram........oh the lazy non caring afternoons in that boat I built from scratch myself. Still have the plans and toy with building another. i sold the boat to one of my neighbors for his kids to sail, he never got them to sail it, never picked up the sail itself, I still have it! hmmmmmmmmmmm I have to admit, should have built an El Toro, as there was an eltor fleet around at the time. That would have been fun! Oh yeah, one things a glass boat is cold! try being in that boat on a 30F day sailing in 10-15knots o wind!

Oh well, in the mean time, at that time, having an IOR half ton style boat WAS a BIG boat, I guess I will continue to sail my post fastnet ior half ton, and enjoy it!

Those metal/iron things of Brents are fuglier than a battle ship, or other navy boat, not to mention would need a friggen hurricane to move them! or a really LARGE IRON Genny with them cotton rags he uses too!

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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

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Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
jak:
So If I read between the lines I take it you are not going to buy me that Mercedes.
You could at least be a man and say it up front.
Sorry Bob,Not this week anyhow.If I win the lotto tonight maybe
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