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  #821  
Old 06-27-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
I built ULLR in Comox BC in the early 80s. The owners worked part time on her, evenings and weekends. The steel cost $3800 back then and scrap stainless was $1 a pound. I have no records of what else they spent on her .

One is the wine coloured 36 in the photos you posted, built for $35,000, 5 years ago, Winston Bushnells boat, beautifully finished inside and out. It is his his 4th offshore boat and his 3rd brentboat. It is at Newcastel Marina in Nanaimo. I am at the opposite end of Georgia Strait, retired, and where the swimin gets good, and I have no intention of giving it up to sail to a noisy, hostile, bureautcrat ridden city, to appease someone who thinks I am having too much fun( which I am).

Many, including myself, pay far less attention to the odd rock ,than we would in a fragile plastic or wooden boat, which couldn't survive a collision with a rock, without serious hull dammage. We dont sail in rockpiles and uncharted waters, in stark fear. If we hit a rock we shrug and carry on, no wories.. Some have hit rocks at three knots some at 6 or more and everything in between, with no real damage except a tiny paint chip.
You mean Dove IV was built 5 years ago for $35K...



...despite the fact that it's listed as a 2002?

On the year discrepancy, I'll take that to mean that Bushnell started the boat in 2002, and it took them 6 years to finish it. Otherwise, your numbers are pretty crappy.

On the price, if you're trying to convince the poor 99% cruiser that this is what they can get for $35K all-in, I call BS (and that doesn't stand for Brent Swain). SSB, Radar, Chartplotter, Fab All Furnace, 35 hp Isuzu...etc. A fine list of yachting absurdities.

So are these guys lying about the year of the boat and pumping the price up to twice its actual value? How is that fair to the 99%-er? You have some 'splainin' to do!

Dude, please. I'm starting to think you've hit plenty of odd rocks - with more than a tiny paint chip to show for it.

I think Bob was looking for this...



Honestly, Brent, I'm begging you - just be straight up with people. Stop trying to make everything you do look like the be-all in yachting. You do some very cool things. I mean that. But you completely dump all over it with your obviously bs-laden claims.
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Last edited by smackdaddy; 06-27-2013 at 01:46 AM.
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  #822  
Old 06-27-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

This is pretty cool. I am not much into the mega buck racing scene.But this is like those old Morris Rosenfeld prints brought to life.
https://vimeo.com/65928734#
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  #823  
Old 06-27-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

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Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Brent:
What the hell difference does it make?

You have clients who pride themselves on hitting rocks. I call that bad navigation and then I call it stupidity. Yachting for the mentally impaired. I don't care how my boat was built. I would do everything in my power to keep it off the rocks. Period!

You like your agricultural looking boats and some of us don't. Go your own way and we can go ours. If you want to anchor in quiet cove looking like the dog's breakfast then fine. I want my boats to enhance any environment they find themselves in. I am a yacht designer.

We will NEVER agree. NEVER
183 degrees limit of positive stability?
I agree a fine boat should consist of form and function complementing each other (and the 183 degree limit of vanishing stability is something I said "tongue in cheek").
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  #824  
Old 06-27-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

I guess that Bob was referring to BS arguing that that was possible with his boats, or something along those lines.

Anyways all boats that are sailed are nice boats.
/Joms

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfenzee View Post
I agree a fine boat should consist of form and function complementing each other (and the 183 degree limit of vanishing stability is something I said "tongue in cheek").
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  #825  
Old 06-27-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Bob, Is Sliver going to be living at Shilshole? I'd love to see her in person once she's in the water. Congrats on another beautiful boat.
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  #826  
Old 06-27-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Alex:
No. The SLIVER will live on Bainbridge Island on the dock in front of the owner's house. But the boat will be at CSR on the Canal for some time while it is being outfitted, rigged and finished. You could stop by and take a look anytime.

I don't fault Wolf for the 183 degree limit of positive stability mistake. He's just a boat owner and I don't expect boat owners to be experts on stability numbers. But Brent entertained the idea and commented on it. I would expect someone calling himself a yacht designer to be familiar enough with stability figures to know immedietely that there can be no such thing as 183 degrees of positive stability. Of course he blows it off now but if you go back and read the exchange I think it speaks for itself.

My point is this: If someone is going to put forward ideas on the elements of yacht design they need some credibility to establish they are expert in the field.
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  #827  
Old 06-27-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
Wow! What a collection of disinformation, misinformation, and outright falsehoods in that post!
Brent:

You love saying this kind of unsubstantiated malarkie but in all the years that we have had these discussions you have yet to put up a single calculation to support your claims or refute mine. In past debates on this topic I put up spreadsheets with calculations supporting my claims which were footnoted to actual reference sources so that you could refute the basis of those calculations. When you make these kinds of statements in the absense of anything more than unsupported claims and hyperbole, it makes it very hard for you to maintain any kind of credibility.

Jeff
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  #828  
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

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Originally Posted by Jeff_H View Post
Brent:

You love saying this kind of unsubstantiated malarkie but in all the years that we have had these discussions you have yet to put up a single calculation to support your claims or refute mine. In past debates on this topic I put up spreadsheets with calculations supporting my claims which were footnoted to actual reference sources so that you could refute the basis of those calculations. When you make these kinds of statements in the absense of anything more than unsupported claims and hyperbole, it makes it very hard for you to maintain any kind credibility.

Jeff
And detracts from the boats that are built and owned by the owners, potentially making them harder to sell?
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  #829  
Old 06-27-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
You mean Dove IV was built 5 years ago for $35K...



...despite the fact that it's listed as a 2002?

On the year discrepancy, I'll take that to mean that Bushnell started the boat in 2002, and it took them 6 years to finish it. Otherwise, your numbers are pretty crappy.

On the price, if you're trying to convince the poor 99% cruiser that this is what they can get for $35K all-in, I call BS (and that doesn't stand for Brent Swain). SSB, Radar, Chartplotter, Fab All Furnace, 35 hp Isuzu...etc. A fine list of yachting absurdities.

So are these guys lying about the year of the boat and pumping the price up to twice its actual value? How is that fair to the 99%-er? You have some 'splainin' to do!

Dude, please. I'm starting to think you've hit plenty of odd rocks - with more than a tiny paint chip to show for it.

I think Bob was looking for this...



Honestly, Brent, I'm begging you - just be straight up with people. Stop trying to make everything you do look like the be-all in yachting. You do some very cool things. I mean that. But you completely dump all over it with your obviously bs-laden claims.
When I asked Winston when he launched he said " 5 years ago. When I asked him what she cost, he said "Around $35 k" So your gripe is with Winston not me. I wasnt about to call him a liar, so you can, to his face. I'd like to be there when you do.
I was just given another SSB- Ham radio for free, my second freebe ham radio . Winston has many similar expereinces, as he is very quick to do favours for others, anyone can do that.
I sailed many years without radar, never had a fab all, my wood stove cost me $50 for stainless .I have never had a chartplotter, th efirst diesel for my current boat cost me$1,000. What Winston was quoting was the cost of geting sailing and livable , the toys all come later, without which one can do many years of cruising.
I have never suggested that anyone can buy one of my boats cheap and get al the work and resourcefuillness the owner put in for free. One can build and equip their own brentboat for a fraction the cost of having one built. Do you work for free? No? Then dont expect others to.
John Sampson, when he started the ferro cement boat craze, said he told people that if they used galvanized rigging built their own masts, used automotive engines andused sails and other used sailng gear they could get cruising inexpensively. So what did they do? Bought all new sails, new rigs, new marine engines, lined the boat inside and out with teak and expensive bells and whistles, paid others to do everything at shop rates . Then what did they do? Complain that it was not cheap, then called John a liar. John was being totally honest in teling them that they could build their own boat for a low cost IF THEY FOLLOWED HIS ADVICE, which they refused to do, then blamed thimm for their own stupidity.Then they called him a liar , not for what he said ,but for his having assumed they had listened to what he actually did say!
When you ask for a price breakdown on building my boats, you are asuming that my clients are incredibly stupid enough to buy everything new, at retail prices. They are definitely not that stupid. Most are far more practical and resourceful that that ,unlike those who foolishly assume that they are as dense as the average urban consumer, an extreme insult to their intelligence and resourcefulness. A friend was given an old boat, rotten, with a good mast, rig sails, winches , anchors anchor rodes, runing rigging ,etc etc. a freebe. How many more price zeros can a resouceful home builder put on your proposed list? Winston had many.There is no predicting what kind of deals a resourcful home builder will come up with, so such a list is only valid for the super dense, urban consumerism disciple. Those kind of halfwits are not amoung my clients.I would rather send them to Bob.
When I started my current 31 in 84 , I had $4,000 to my name ,total. When I launched her 30 day later ,I had $40. People at Newcastle marina at the time including Gerald, Evan and Winston can afirm the build to launching time. From there to sailing and living aboard, minus my cost of living, was $2,000 left for the boat.Mainsail Sig Jantzen sold me for $100 the awning I made my jib out of cost me $80 , interior panneling freebe, dito the 3/4 and 3/8th plywood.

Last edited by Brent Swain; 06-27-2013 at 07:07 PM.
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  #830  
Old 06-27-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Sounds sort of like me, I have aquired all sorts of stuff for little or nothing, not have go and get rid of lots of valuable stuff...I have to keep reminding myself of how much it actuially cost me. I did buy radar, only because it was really cheap, I can't get around to installing it so will get rid of it....it's used value is $750-$950, but I paid $125....I have already given away $1000 worth of power tools (which cost me $200)....but just out of principle I want to sell the Radar.
I like doing favors for people, if they return the favor, great, if not, no problem. Also I have profited more out of trading stuff than if I had sold it.
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