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  #881  
Old 07-01-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

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Originally Posted by Jeff_H View Post
Brent,
First of all, when I mentioned "low cost, speed of construction, and impact resistance" as primary design criteria, that was my attempt at paraphrasing my understanding of what seemed to be your consistent primary concerns in all of these discussions over the years. My primary concerns would include exceptional sailing ability, ease of handling, seaworthiness, seakindliness, and appealing aesthetics, and that would preclude steel for boats of a size that would appeal to me.

But that aside, as you should probably recall from our earlier detailed discussion on this, and the spreadsheet and reference notes that I provided at that time. In that earlier exchange, I had taken one of your Origami designs and had calculated the sheet sizes and weight of steel, welding rod, etc. involved in building it, and gotten a local, delivered price for those materials.

I did the same for the plywood, kevlar, glass and resin to build the same boat stitch and glue. They were close in price with the plywood composite construction being slightly less expensive.

On that spreadsheet, I had also gone to a welding manual and showed the rate of speed that an average professional welder could cut and weld the hull of that boat in steel and had put together a similar estimate of number of hours for the plywood composite boat built to a similar simple level of finish.

As you may recall from that analysis, you were right that you could 'pull together a steel hull faster. But when you factored in the time to prep and paint the steel boat, and that the wood composite version had more of its interior in place, the difference in time was negligible, and if there were layouts for cutting out the interior components, it looked like the wood composite version could be ready to go cruising slightly faster than the steel version.

And, yes, if constructed with kevlar and plywood skin of an equal weight to your steel hull skin, I would expect the composite hull to stand up equally well to being beaten by a sledge hammer for as long as you would like.



Brent:
You really need to read more carefully, what was actually said was a wood/ kevlar composite hull would be stronger than a steel hull of an equal weight. But the military does not need me to tell them about composites. The latest US Navy front line ships are being constructed using primarily composite construction. They are doing this as a cost savings in terms of life cost, strength to weight, performance and the ability to protect the crew in battle.
Naval Composite Ship Program Moves Ahead

As to gun barrels, they are made from steel for material behavior reasons that has nothing to do strength concerns. Steel conducts heat much more effectively than composites. In the case of a gun barrel, one of the prime concerns is being able to keep it cool and there steel is more effective than composites.

On the other hand, on a cruising boat, the ability of a composite hull to reduce heat flow through the skin is a good thing making it more comfortable below than a steel boat, assuming equal weight and equal external insulation levels.

Respectfully,
Jeff
The Danish StandardFlex vessels are also fragile plastic: MAKRELEN (1991- ), Patruljefartøj
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  #882  
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

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The Danish StandardFlex vessels are also fragile plastic: MAKRELEN (1991- ), Patruljefartøj
And the de Havilland Mosquito was made of wood
RAF - De Havilland Mosquito
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  #883  
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

I'm pretty sure the Spitfire was a very early succesful use of what we call "cold molding" now. But it was a flimsy little plane that didn't work very well.
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

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I'm pretty sure the Spitfire was a very early succesful use of what we call "cold molding" now. But it was a flimsy little plane that didn't work very well.
Ya to bad about that.Also those higgins boats were a disaster to;-).Well I am off to play with some thru hulls on a flimsy,plastic Islander 36.
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

" Higgins""
Do you mean Huckins, the guys that built those flimsy, fragile PT boats for the South Pacific?
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

When I was in Marion had the pleasure of being near a chris craft and a huckins. Believe both were built before I was born ( and I fart dust). Both were all bright and beautiful. Also a 1940s "commuter" being used as a summer liveaboard. Guess wood don't hold up so good. Also love to go to the Benjamin and Gagnon yard. Traditional plank on frame. What a joy to see how those boats are put together. Still see original MacKenzie bassboats plucking stripers out of the waters around Cuttihunk. Wood boats fishing ( and bouncing) off the rocks catching what dem southern folks call rock fish for a reason. Then there are these funny narrow 39'yawls sailing by- wonder what's that's about? Seem to see a bunch around South Dartmouth. Guess Bob's right- wood is just a phase. Personally, if maintained and sound would not a have thought about taking a Concordia anywhere regardless of age.
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

If I was loaded with dough and could afford any boat I wanted I think I would realize a fantacy I have had for many years. I'd convert a flimsy and dangerous halibut schooner into a cruising boat. I know,,I'd be taking my life in my hands but I'm sort of a daredevil type as any of my friends will tell you. These old schoonners worked one of the very toughest fisheries and lasted for 100 years. There is still a fleet of them in Seattle. They are magnificent.
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

I tried to put sails on that schooner and it hurt my head. You wouldn't want to build from scratch in modern materials?
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

I'd eat live babies to do a modern version of a halibut schooner.
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Did someone say that for our next trick we are drawing a halibut schooner built with modern materials?
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