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  #951  
Old 07-03-2013
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by outbound View Post
Brent-your comments suggest as long as you can build inside and can use a gas environment for your tig welder you be better off in Al. Guess you have to go to the Netherlands to see well constructed steel pro made yachts.
I have sent many sets of plans and copies of my book to the Netherlands to Dutch people who seek more modern ways of doing things.
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  #952  
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

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Originally Posted by blt2ski View Post
Brent,

Did you know destroyers in the US navy fleet only have 3/8" thick steel, so while they are in the lead of a carrier fleet, if they are torpedo'd, the torpedo goes thru it with out exploding! Meanwhile the battle and carrier ships have thicker steel. BUT, a torpedo will explode and sink them! The US navy in WWII lost more destroyers due to typhoons than torpedo's! So having a frame that is not to strong or thick etc, might be an advantage at times. Also why PT boats were made of wood. Lighter, just as strong per say, but a torpedo would go thru them, potentially allowing said boat to get to the sub and destroy it!

So one can have, many types of materials to make a boat per say, sometimes the strength of it, as you imply by whether or not a bullet will go thru stop or equal, may be to either it advantage, or disadvantage. That fir would not explode a bullet, so you only have a round hole in hull to deal with, the steel on the other hand, would explode the bullet, sinking the steel boat!

Take that for what it is worth!

Marty
I just measured the hole in 3/8th plate made by a 30 calibre bullet. It measured 48 calibre, not exactly exploding the bullet, and not making a significantly bigger hole, when I have seen them expand at least as much, or more in wood.
I wouldn't put much faith in the math skills or judgement of anyone who believes that the energy needed to push a 180 grain projectile hard enough to go thru 23 inches of fir, can be contained in a wooden barrel. I saw a 3 inch shell hole in a sunken tug at Fanning Island thru the iron prop. Anyone there can dive on it, just off the village. You couldn't get that kind of energy from a wooden barrel.
It just shows how ludicrous the comments about the strength of wood made here really are.
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

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Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
I just measured the hole in 3/8th plate made by a 30 calibre bullet. It measured 48 calibre, not exactly exploding the bullet, and not making a significantly bigger hole, when I have seen them expand at least as much, or more in wood.
I wouldn't put much faith in the math skills or judgement of anyone who believes that the energy needed to push a 180 grain projectile hard enough to go thru 23 inches of fir, can be contained in a wooden barrel. I saw a 3 inch shell hole in a sunken tug at Fanning Island thru the iron prop. Anyone there can dive on it, just off the village. You couldn't get that kind of energy from a wooden barrel.
It just shows how ludicrous the comments about the strength of wood made here really are.
Now THAT I agree with, Brent. Who on earth would even conceive the preposterous idea of using wood for a gun barrel? Ludicrous!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
Then you could also do wooden gun barrels .
Oh, yeah, it was you.

You're now arguing with yourself, dude.
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
I just figured it out, Brent. Fear is what sells your boats. It's why you say the things you do. Fear and bitterness...leading to an extremely whacked out view of seamanship. It all makes sense now.

That's kind of sad, dude.

That said, where is your recipe for the cheap blocks? I'd actually like to build a few of those for backups. I've even document it for the cause.
You have seen them very well described on anythingsailing.com. Cruising.stuffiminto.com and on this site.
Concern for safety, for ones self and ones crew, sometimes ones children, is a major factor in ones choice of boat. You are suggesting it shouldn't be?Now that's advocating bad seamanship, and outright irresponsible behavior.
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

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Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
You have seen them very well described on anythingsailing.com. Cruising.stuffiminto.com and on this site.
Concern for safety, for ones self and ones crew, sometimes ones children, is a major factor in ones choice of boat. You are suggesting it shouldn't be?Now that's advocating bad seamanship, and outright irresponsible behavior.
Oh no, the choice of boat is critical in protecting crew, children and baby bunnies. That's precisely why I chose a boat that will stay off the rocks.
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

In this debate I am reminded of the time I went to a steel boat gathering at the Bluewater Cruising Association. I showed up in bluejeans . That was in the early 80s. A guy selling very expensive steel boats bondoed to look like fibreglass boats showed up in a pin striped suit with gold cuff links. People thought "Gee, if he has on a pin striped suit with gold cuff links, he surely must know a lot more about steel boatbuilding than the guy in blue jeans. A friend went to have a look at one of his imitation fibreglass boats which the guy in the suit said was about to be spray foamed. It was welded one side only and you could see nearly the thickness of the metal into the grove where the inside weld should have been The outside weld had been ground flush, leaving only the thickness of a beer can holding it together. She had only a thin coating of primer inside no proper epoxy which is one coat of primer more than Foulkes of Fehr boars, other "BC Professionally" Built boats . I met a KIWI who told me his friend had bought one of these imitation fibreglas boats , he contract specified 2 inches of weld on the stringers every 6 inches. He found his had a half inch of weld every 3 ft holding his stringers in.He went after the guy in the suit ,with lawsuit and when he finally caught him the guy in the suit declared bankruptcy and closed his shop.
No one I have built a boat for in the last 37 years has had any such complaints, even if I do wear blue jeans, and not a pin striped suit with gold cufflinks
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Last edited by Brent Swain; 07-03-2013 at 08:45 PM.
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

Brent:
That's great that you sent all those plans and books to Holland. Can you show us some of the Dutch boats that were built to your plans? Just four or five would be sufficient. But back up your claims. Your BS is growing tiresome.

I thought we were done talking about shooting boats. I don't like shooting boats. I would never do it. I know it's important to Brent but it has never been important to any of my clients. Maybe Brent has some kind of gun fetish. Why are we even talking about shooting boats. If I was being attacked by a boat and I had a gun I might, just might, shoot the boat in self defense. Of course I'd try my martial arts skills on the boat first, a leg sweep, a few empi (if the leg sweep didn't work), maybe a muashi geri or a jodan zuki. But if those failed I'd shoot that boat. I could get into this but I'd stop short of shooting the poor boat.

What a totally ridiculous argument that has absolutely nothing to do with yacht design. But Brent thought it did. Whacko.

My theory is that when Brent is caught in one of his many whoppers he immediately changes the subject. He doesn't defend his previous bizarre statement he just changes the subject to some abstruse and non sequitur subject. But it works for him. Here we are talking about shooting boats with wooden gun barrels.

You crack me up Brent. You are at least entertaining.

I wear blue jeans every day. What does that prove? Nothing.
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Last edited by bobperry; 07-03-2013 at 08:49 PM.
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Now THAT I agree with, Brent. Who on earth would even conceive the preposterous idea of using wood for a gun barrel? Ludicrous!



Oh, yeah, it was you.

You're now arguing with yourself, dude.

Those were Marty and Jeffs posts I was responding to,
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

The suggestion that anyone can design a good cruising boat in any material, without having ever worked in the material, or without having ever done any long distance cruising, is a lot like saying we don't need drivers tests anymore, as you can learn all you need to know about driving by reading a book.
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Re: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat

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Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Brent:
That's great that you sent all those plans and books to Holland. Can you show us some of the Dutch boats that were built to your plans? Just four or five would be sufficient. But back up your claims. Your BS is growing tiresome.

I thought we were done talking about shooting boats. I don't like shooting boats. I would never do it. I know it's important to Brent but it has never been important to any of my clients. Maybe Brent has some kind of gun fetish. Why are we even talking about shooting boats. If I was being attacked by a boat and I had a gun I might, just might, shoot the boat in self defense. Of course I'd try my martial arts skills on the boat first, a leg sweep, a few empi (if the leg sweep didn't work), maybe a muashi geri or a jodan zuki. But if those failed I'd shoot that boat. I could get into this but I'd stop short of shooting the poor boat.

What a totally ridiculous argument that has absolutely nothing to do with yacht design. But Brent thought it did. Whacko.

My theory is that when Brent is caught in one of his many whoppers he immediately changes the subject. He doesn't defend his previous bizarre statement he just changes the subject to some abstruse and non sequitur subject. But it works for him. Here we are talking about shooting boats with wooden gun barrels.

You crack me up Brent. You are at least entertaining.

I wear blue jeans every day. What does that prove? Nothing.
Bob
What we are talking about is impact resistance and claims that wood is stronger than steel. Sorry for talking over your head with my comparisons ..
When you talk about charging $34,000 for a set of plans , you are talking about screwing a wannabe cruiser out of decades of cruising funds, for what, a boat that may go a quarter knot faster? Naive decorative priorities from someone who has never done any of the kind of cruising his clients hope to do, who has zero hands on boatbuilding experience ? You learn a lot getting your hands dirty about the best way of doing things which you would never learn from drawing pictures.How useful will that quarter of a knot be compared to an extra $34,000 in the kitty?
I would never consider screwing a client out of money which I don't need, and in the process, screwing them out of their cruising dreams .I charge $30 an hour, which is all the money I ever need out of a job. People tell me I could charge a lot more, but why would I when I don't need the money. I get more satisfaction out of seeing them living their dream, and having made it possible, than I ever could by screwing them out of it.
I plan to train 4 more people how to build my boats this winter; youth , so I can send all my work to them ( ya I know Smackdaddy, that is downright selfish of me)
Your reference to Karate is hilarious . Been there done that. Karate is a joke , as useless as a one legged man trying to kick ass, best regarded as a form of ballet than a martial art. I quit being a Karate sucker many decades ago. Are you still one? Sounds like more doubtful judgement.
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Last edited by Brent Swain; 07-03-2013 at 09:13 PM.
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