How do you clean your bottom? - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > Welcome to Sailnet > SailNet FAQ
 Not a Member? 

SailNet FAQ This forum is specifically on the Sailnet Website and how to do certain things on the website. Please note - any other threads will be deleted.


Like Tree1Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 11-28-2010
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: SF - South Bay
Posts: 506
Thanks: 1
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
Rep Power: 5
paul323 is on a distinguished road
How do you clean your bottom?

We have Petit Trinidad antifouling paint - works well, but even in cool Bay Area waters the bottom needs cleaning every 2-3 months (knotmeter more often - ). I was paying a diver, but want to do the job myself. Maybe that way I can afford some of the upgrades I have planned...

The question I have is - what is the best way to clean marine growth off the hull - without scrubbing off too much of the anti-fouling paint?

- Soft brush
- Stiff Brush
- Scouring pad (one of those green scotchbrite pads)
- other suggestions?

As an aside, it amazes me how much weed grows on the prop and prop shaft - maybe I'm not motoring enough....
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #2  
Old 11-28-2010
newhaul's Avatar
islander bahama 24
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: kingston WA
Posts: 599
Thanks: 6
Thanked 19 Times in 19 Posts
Rep Power: 5
newhaul is on a distinguished road
i saw a home made brush on the cruiser next to me at the marina. i will try to describe it here. they made a frame with 1 1/2 inch PVC pipe the ends were 12 inches with a tee in the middle a 1 ft piece on the tee then a 45 deg fitting and then 10 ft of straight pipe on the tee sides they used zip strips to attach what looked like a small piece of outdoor carpet to it. to use like a brush for weekly cleaning. i intend on building one soon the water is to cold here for skin diving.
__________________
Illegitimus Non Tatum Carborundum.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #3  
Old 11-28-2010
JiffyLube's Avatar
Grasshopper
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Oceanside, Ca.
Posts: 894
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 7
JiffyLube is on a distinguished road
Use cloth baby diapers.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #4  
Old 11-28-2010
CaptainForce's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: living aboard since 1972
Posts: 1,696
Thanks: 0
Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts
Rep Power: 9
CaptainForce will become famous soon enough
I think the best answer will depend upon the indigenous organisms in your area. Here in the southeast US barnacles are more of a problem than algae and cloths or pads are usually not sufficient. I use a 6" wide putty knife with the corner points filed smooth for the barnacles and a 3M abrassive pad for the waterline algae. I do not clean and scrape more than three times a year and I haul out for a bottom painting once every three or four years. I do relocate frequently an this does discourage a lot of growth. Many organisms have very specific salinity tolerances and moving about can limit accumulation. Also natural predators vary. For example, if you bring any barnacle growth into Palm Beach from the north the Parrot Fish will crunch into all of them! We just can't train them to remove the scale! Take care and joy, Aythya crew
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #5  
Old 11-28-2010
JiffyLube's Avatar
Grasshopper
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Oceanside, Ca.
Posts: 894
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 7
JiffyLube is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainForce View Post
I think the best answer will depend upon the indigenous organisms in your area. Here in the southeast US barnacles are more of a problem than algae and cloths or pads are usually not sufficient. I use a 6" wide putty knife with the corner points filed smooth for the barnacles and a 3M abrassive pad for the waterline algae. I do not clean and scrape more than three times a year and I haul out for a bottom painting once every three or four years. I do relocate frequently an this does discourage a lot of growth. Many organisms have very specific salinity tolerances and moving about can limit accumulation. Also natural predators vary. For example, if you bring any barnacle growth into Palm Beach from the north the Parrot Fish will crunch into all of them! We just can't train them to remove the scale! Take care and joy, Aythya crew
I thought he might be talking about fresh hard bottom paint that needs time to cure, and during the first six months or so rubbing or scraping to hard will remove it. Using the boat will go along way in keeping the growth down, until the biocide leaches out and more serious methods need to be used. Naturally this depends on the area the boat is to be used in like you mentioned Captain.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #6  
Old 11-28-2010
Fstbttms's Avatar
I don't discuss my member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Under a boat, in a marina, in the San Francisco Bay
Posts: 2,034
Thanks: 2
Thanked 18 Times in 18 Posts
Rep Power: 12
Fstbttms is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by JiffyLube View Post
Use cloth baby diapers.
Not a viable option in any California saltwater environment. Certainly not on a 2 or 3 month cleaning frequency.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JiffyLube View Post
I thought he might be talking about fresh hard bottom paint that needs time to cure.
Anti fouling paint does not need to "cure" after the boat has been splashed. This is a wives tale. Once the bottom has been painted, it's good to go. The reason it is not advisable to clean a newly painted bottom for 90 days is simply that the paint does not need to be cleaned. Copper-based anti fouling paints have a proscribed rate at which their biocide leaches out. This release rate spikes very high when the paint is new (negating the need for cleaning) but drops to a level after about 3 months that it more or less remains at for the duration of its useful lifespan. This is going to change soon however, as California is going to further regulate not only the amount of copper that anti fouling paints can contain but also the rate at which it is released.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paul323 View Post
We have Petit Trinidad antifouling paint - works well, but even in cool Bay Area waters the bottom needs cleaning every 2-3 months (knotmeter more often - ). I was paying a diver, but want to do the job myself.
The question I have is - what is the best way to clean marine growth off the hull - without scrubbing off too much of the anti-fouling paint?
The answer to your question is: Always use the least abrasive tool to clean your bottom that will get the job done. What tool this ultimately turns out to be is largely dependant on the age and condition of your anti fouling paint. You have Trinidad on the bottom now and that is good, as it is the best anti fouling product available for use in California, IMHO. If it's new, clean your bottom with a white 3m Doodlebug pad. If it's not so new, you will have to move to a more abrasive scrubber, like the blue Doodlebug. If it's pretty bad, a brown pad will do the trick. But whatever the age and condition, more frequent, gentle cleanings will extend the paint's life and reduce the amount of copper you are introducing into the water column than less frequent, more abrasive cleanings. Brushes, scrapers and other implements are not used by experienced hull cleaners who know how to properly maintain anti fouling paint, except to remove hard growth. In the Bay Area, a 2-month cleaning cycle is considered optimal.

If you are serious about sailing on a clean bottom, you will forget about using a "Dri-Diver" or other version of a scrubber on a stick. Not only will you not be able to clean a large portion of the hull (forget about the keel) but those areas you can reach will likely be poorly cleaned at best. Further, you will have little control over the pressure applied to the scrubber. This means if the paint needs a very gentle touch you won't be able to provide it or if the paint needs some real elbow grease to get it clean, that ain't happening either. 'Course, how will you know if either condition exists, since you are working blind from the dock? Thru-hulls, transducers, running gear and zincs? Not getting inspected or replaced and certainly not getting cleaned.
DivingOtter likes this.

Last edited by Fstbttms; 11-28-2010 at 10:16 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #7  
Old 11-28-2010
RichH's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,700
Thanks: 9
Thanked 57 Times in 51 Posts
Rep Power: 15
RichH will become famous soon enough
Simple & quick method to keep the bottom clean.

1. Use Micron -Extra (or equivalent) for at least to 3 ft. below the waterline to keep the slime off. Should be applied 'smooth' but no need for 'racing bottom' smooth.
2. Use a large window 'squeegee' on a long handled (5-7ft. long) extension pole and quickly squeegee (from your dinghy) what you can reach once weekly or every two weeks. Of course if you actively sail the boat or moor it in an area with lots of water flowing past the boat, the less 'squeegee-ing' will be needed. Use the squeegee with just enough pressure to remove the slime and 'soft' adhering growth (such as juvenile barnacles) but no need to 'scrub'.

Rationale ... will keep the slime down to a bare minimum. Slime build-up allows barnacles to get a 'footing' on the hull as the slime layer blocks the action of the copper based anti fouling. A squeegee will clean the ablative paint but not remove remove 'much' of the ablative as when you 'scrub' it.

Note: To use a squeegee for cleaning, you do need to have the bottom paint applied smooth ('almost' to racing bottom smooth), not applied with only a roller which leaves the hull surface 'pimply' or 'bumpy'. Paint application: After 'very light' sanding, I apply my bottom paint with a WEST foam roller and immediately 'tip' the paint with a polyethylene trowel to knock the paint into the 'valleys' from the previous season and to leave a FLAT surface; you may need to let the paint cure a few days before 're-coating' the same spot if necessary. This technique is the same as smoothing out epoxy or polyester or gelcoat when applying a faired final surface to a male plug mold - the learning curve is steep for this type of paint application. No/little sanding needed after painting.

Summary: Keep the thin slime layers from building up on the ablative and barnacles wont take hold. Apply the bottom paint so that its smooth so you can simply squeegee the slime, etc. off on a regular basis or when needed. Best to keep slime from building up is to go sailing often.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #8  
Old 11-28-2010
JiffyLube's Avatar
Grasshopper
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Oceanside, Ca.
Posts: 894
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 7
JiffyLube is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fstbttms View Post
Not a viable option in any California saltwater environment. Certainly not on a 2 or 3 month cleaning frequency.
Anti fouling paint does not need to "cure" after the boat has been splashed. This is a wives tale. Once the bottom has been painted, it's good to go. The reason it is not advisable to clean a newly painted bottom for 90 days is simply that the paint does not need to be cleaned. Copper-based anti fouling paints have a proscribed rate at which their biocide leaches out. This release rate spikes very high when the paint is new (negating the need for cleaning) but drops to a level after about 3 months that it more or less remains at for the duration of its useful lifespan. This is going to change soon however, as California is going to further regulate not only the amount of copper that anti fouling paints can contain but also the rate at which it is released.
My answers if wrong were based on information I received from the owner of Koehler Kraft in San Diego, at a seminar I attended about a month ago at Downwind Marine. The owner claimed that from his own personal experience with his personal boats in San Diego, that a diver should not be used for at least six months after the boat is splashed. His reasons as previously stated were because of curing, and the growth during that time is generally restricted to algae that moving the boat through water can usually remove. This is his opinion not mine, but I based my opinion on what he thought was proper. I figured since he was suppose to be an expert in the field of marine maintenance, that I was getting correct information from the horse's mouth..but now I see that experts disagree on this topic.

My mind is open to any expert opinion on this topic, because I don't have any real world experience dealing with this subject...other than what my diver recommends to me.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #9  
Old 11-28-2010
Fstbttms's Avatar
I don't discuss my member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Under a boat, in a marina, in the San Francisco Bay
Posts: 2,034
Thanks: 2
Thanked 18 Times in 18 Posts
Rep Power: 12
Fstbttms is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by JiffyLube View Post
My answers if wrong were based on information I received from the owner of Koehler Kraft in San Diego, at a seminar I attended about a month ago at Downwind Marine. The owner claimed that from his own personal experience with his personal boats in San Diego, that a diver should not be used for at least six months after the boat is splashed. His reasons as previously stated were because of curing, and the growth during that time is generally restricted to algae that moving the boat through water can usually remove. This is his opinion not mine, but I based my opinion on what he thought was proper. I figured since he was suppose to be an expert in the field of marine maintenance, that I was getting correct information from the horse's mouth..but now I see that experts disagree on this topic.
Koehler has a well-known antipathy for hull cleaners (as do many boat yards), so it does not surprise me that he would give you any rationale for reducing the use of a diver. He would be happy (I'm sure) if hull cleaning were banned altogether and he never again had to explain to another boat owner why his diver found that a new bottom was flaking off or didn't deliver the perfomance that had been promised. Further, this "curing" he speaks of is complete BS and any paint manufacturer or their representative will tell you so. If in doubt, read the lable or tech sheet for any anti fouling product and see if you can find any reference to a curing period after the boat has been launched with new paint. You won't.
I have yet to see any boat in the Bay Area (much less San Diego) that didn't need cleaning long before 6 months on a new bottom and I don't care how much water is moving past the hull. He does his clients a disservice by telling them this. But again, I am not surprised. A certain yard owner here had been telling his clients that the Micron 66 he pushes very hard never needed cleaning at all (based on his personal experience, of course ) and that boat owners should tell their divers not to touch it. It wasn't until I started showing pictures of the foul Micron 66 bottoms to the boat owners and the Interlux reps that he changed his tune.

Last edited by Fstbttms; 11-28-2010 at 11:39 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #10  
Old 11-28-2010
Fstbttms's Avatar
I don't discuss my member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Under a boat, in a marina, in the San Francisco Bay
Posts: 2,034
Thanks: 2
Thanked 18 Times in 18 Posts
Rep Power: 12
Fstbttms is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichH View Post
1. Use Micron -Extra (or equivalent) for at least to 3 ft. below the waterline to keep the slime off.
What goes on the hull below 3ft below the waterline?
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How to Clean a dirty bottom jephotog Gear & Maintenance 14 09-08-2009 11:55 AM
keel clean up and bottom paint hobie61 Gear & Maintenance 1 04-30-2009 07:51 AM
Clean mean lines Giulietta General Discussion (sailing related) 16 01-29-2009 05:24 PM
How do you clean the bottom? razorseal Gear & Maintenance 5 02-23-2006 12:06 PM
Diver to clean bottom..how much $ Wega24 Racing 5 08-19-2002 08:03 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:43 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012