Anchor Setting Woes - Page 2 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Seamanship & Navigation
 Not a Member? 

Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.


Like Tree33Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #11  
Old 06-26-2013
Alex W's Avatar
no longer reading SailNet
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,309
Thanks: 2
Thanked 139 Times in 133 Posts
Rep Power: 3
Alex W is on a distinguished road
Re: Anchor Setting Woes

I do think you can have too much chain and too much anchor weight. When it becomes unmanageable and is no longer providing additional necessary holding then you have too much. I feel good with a 25lb Manson Supreme and 30' of chain on my anchor rode on a ~8000lb 28' boat. However I'm not anchoring and leaving it alone for months at a time like Aaron...if I were I'd upsize. I'm typically on the boat while it is anchored.

I like the Manson Supreme a lot. It's expensive, but it sets (and resets) quickly. I have a Fortress as my lunch hook/secondary anchor and it doesn't set as nicely.

Note that you can also back down the anchor by sailing backwards by pushing the main sail out on the boom. There is nothing more peaceful than dropping and leaving anchor by wind and leaving the engine turned off. Of course this works best in large open anchorages.

Don Casey has a different take on anchor scope in this article that is worth considering:
Ground Rules: Anchoring in Three Dimensions | Sail Magazine

In Seattle we have much larger tidal swings than on the Chesapeake, so I've never had the experience of anchoring in 7' of water. Last Sunday we had >15' swings, so anchoring in 7' of water would mean you'd be in 22' of water later on. That makes you think a lot about scope.

I usually seem to anchor in 20-40' of water and go for a 5:1 scope. My rode is 300' total, so I can anchor in up to 60' of water with that scope.
__________________
I'm no longer participating on SailNet.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
The Following User Says Thank You to Alex W For This Useful Post:
cman (08-05-2013)
  #12  
Old 06-26-2013
chucklesR's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Pasadena Md - Magothy side
Posts: 5,979
Thanks: 10
Thanked 31 Times in 31 Posts
Rep Power: 10
chucklesR is a jewel in the rough chucklesR is a jewel in the rough chucklesR is a jewel in the rough
Re: Anchor Setting Woes

When I had a Gemini 105Mc I could back up to a tree and anchor in 2 feet. Not that we did all that often but...
I've held up to 17 boats (over 150k pounds) on my 25 lb danforth the trick is to give it time to settle in and dig.
Even the 'next gen' anchors that are deep diving designs need time. If you aren't actually drifting, just wait.

Now on the Irwin 38, I have no windlass. I typically wander up to a cruising boat (like Xort's who posted above), throw out a fender and dock to them. Of course if you don't know them before doing this it might be cause of a slight problem, or it might be a spontaneous party. Hey, it's not your fault they weren't listening on the VHF when you asked for permission to raft up
jrd22, tdw, chef2sail and 3 others like this.
__________________
Lessons learned are opportunities earned.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #13  
Old 06-26-2013
But if not...
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Annapolis MD
Posts: 123
Thanks: 0
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
Rep Power: 4
paperbird is on a distinguished road
Re: Anchor Setting Woes

Lots of good advice. To emphasize a couple points:

Danforth is fine for the Chesapeake. We anchored for years with one all over the Bay with no issues. And without all chain. On boats ranging from 22-34'. Yes the new gen anchors are great. Even better with all chain rode. (Yes I do sleep better now). But technique is the key for all anchoring situations. Develop yours and follow it.

Couple things from our practice:
- develop a hand signal system that works for you. We never have to holler back and forth
- put the anchor gently on the bottom with a slight amount of aft way on. Don't let the anchor touch while moving fwd or it will lay down wrong and it's uphill from there
- pull gently initially while at btwn 3 and 5:1 - your choice and some bit of feel involved. Goal is to get the danforth diving into the mud. Once pointed that way, it'll tend to stay that way.
- 5:1 for day, 7:1 for overnight, 10:1 for bad conditions (wind, current, shifts, bottom, etc) - Don't forget water to bow distance. We have scope table taped on the door of the anchor locker. I don't want either or us to screw up our math if we're tired.
- Once scope is out to what you want, pull hard while lining up a range off the beam. I never trust instruments to tell me I'm set. I want to see a range not change
- sit back, relax, and watch your range marks for awhile to make sure.
- ask others in the anchorage how much scope they have out.
- if something isn't comfortable, it's not right. That odd feeling should never be ignored.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
The Following User Says Thank You to paperbird For This Useful Post:
cman (08-05-2013)
  #14  
Old 06-26-2013
Capt.aaron's Avatar
KNOT KNOWN
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Guanaja, Bay Islands, Honduras
Posts: 1,320
Thanks: 1
Thanked 20 Times in 20 Posts
Rep Power: 4
Capt.aaron is on a distinguished road
Re: Anchor Setting Woes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex W View Post
I do think you can have too much chain and too much anchor weight. When it becomes unmanageable and is no longer providing additional necessary holding then you have too much. I feel good with a 25lb Manson Supreme and 30' of chain on my anchor rode on a ~8000lb 28' boat. However I'm not anchoring and leaving it alone for months at a time like Aaron...if I were I'd upsize. I'm typically on the boat while it is anchored.

I like the Manson Supreme a lot. It's expensive, but it sets (and resets) quickly. I have a Fortress as my lunch hook/secondary anchor and it doesn't set as nicely.

Note that you can also back down the anchor by sailing backwards by pushing the main sail out on the boom. There is nothing more peaceful than dropping and leaving anchor by wind and leaving the engine turned off. Of course this works best in large open anchorages.

Don Casey has a different take on anchor scope in this article that is worth considering:
Ground Rules: Anchoring in Three Dimensions | Sail Magazine

In Seattle we have much larger tidal swings than on the Chesapeake, so I've never had the experience of anchoring in 7' of water. Last Sunday we had >15' swings, so anchoring in 7' of water would mean you'd be in 22' of water later on. That makes you think a lot about scope.

I usually seem to anchor in 20-40' of water and go for a 5:1 scope. My rode is 300' total, so I can anchor in up to 60' of water with that scope.
Well, yeah. You can have too much indeed. I'm only leaving her out for 2 weeks at a time, and it's out in front of my house, and my wife checks on it. I used to leave it out for months years ago in places like Pacencia Belize. Back then I put out a much bigger set up. As I have no engine, I'm older and I am hand hauling, I've reduced my rhode to 30 feet of chain and a 35 pounder. When I was younger I had a 45 pounder and all chain. Point being, I love my Manson and my big Chain. It's as small as I'll go. This is my shalow, 30 feet or less set up. Gen. I'm in 15 and less feet of water. I am currently setting my self up for a deeper set up which will be a fortress and small 3/8 chain on some little 1/2 inch line or something like that.
__________________
" Some are boat wise and some are other wise"
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #15  
Old 06-26-2013
jrd22's Avatar
Courtney the Dancer
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: San Juan Islands., WA, USA
Posts: 3,844
Thanks: 3
Thanked 18 Times in 18 Posts
Rep Power: 15
jrd22 will become famous soon enough
Re: Anchor Setting Woes

It could just be that you have an undersized anchor, there's a lot of truth to the old saying that your anchor isn't big enough until people start telling you it's too big:-)) My wife and I have worked out a set of very simple hand signals for anchoring (forward, back, neutral, increase/decrease rpm, left/right, depth?), we rarely need to say a word.
Faster likes this.
__________________
John
SV Laurie Anne

1988 Brewer 40 Pilothouse

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #16  
Old 06-26-2013
mark2gmtrans's Avatar
sailing soon
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 813
Thanks: 2
Thanked 30 Times in 30 Posts
Rep Power: 2
mark2gmtrans is on a distinguished road
Send a message via Yahoo to mark2gmtrans
Re: Anchor Setting Woes

One thing for communication between the helm and anchor person would possibly one of those little $65.00 headset equipped VHF radios for the anchor person and it would be almost hands free operation. You probably have other spots where the little radio would come in very handy, and it really is $65.00 and comes with the headset.

Just a thought.
__________________
It is good to learn from your mistakes, but much better to learn from the mistakes of others...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #17  
Old 06-26-2013
But if not...
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Annapolis MD
Posts: 123
Thanks: 0
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
Rep Power: 4
paperbird is on a distinguished road
Re: Anchor Setting Woes

Sorry for the slight drift.

we tried headsets and we both hated them - too much emotion. Went back to hand signals. Here's what we use:

Hand pointing up - idle forward
Hand pointing up and going in circles - add a little throttle in forward
Hand sticking out to side - neutral
Hand point down - reverse
hand pointing down and going in circles - add a little throttle in reverse
Hand pointing 45 deg either way - steer that way (picking up a mooring, hoisting the anchor, etc)

Would love others' suggestions for improvement.
MedSailor likes this.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #18  
Old 06-26-2013
mark2gmtrans's Avatar
sailing soon
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 813
Thanks: 2
Thanked 30 Times in 30 Posts
Rep Power: 2
mark2gmtrans is on a distinguished road
Send a message via Yahoo to mark2gmtrans
Re: Anchor Setting Woes

Quote:
Originally Posted by paperbird View Post
Sorry for the slight drift.

we tried headsets and we both hated them - too much emotion. Went back to hand signals. Here's what we use:

Hand pointing up - idle forward
Hand pointing up and going in circles - add a little throttle in forward
Hand sticking out to side - neutral
Hand point down - reverse
hand pointing down and going in circles - add a little throttle in reverse
Hand pointing 45 deg either way - steer that way (picking up a mooring, hoisting the anchor, etc)

Would love others' suggestions for improvement.
Oops, that is not good, emotions should not get out of line when performing small tasks or large ones, but that is definitely a topic for another place. It seems to look like you have all the signals you need...I did notice you are missing one I used to get from my girlfriend when we were together on the boat...
Hand up with palm facing toward body, middle finger extended, all others curled into a fist.... I think that meant something like "if you don't like the way I am doing it, do it yourself, I am going to lay out on the cockpit cushions and drink iced tea".
paperbird, Capt.aaron and egent like this.
__________________
It is good to learn from your mistakes, but much better to learn from the mistakes of others...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #19  
Old 06-26-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: wherever
Posts: 5,264
Thanks: 8
Thanked 17 Times in 16 Posts
Rep Power: 11
xort has a spectacular aura about xort has a spectacular aura about xort has a spectacular aura about
Headsets made things worse?
They're called marriage savers for a reason!

How well can she see your hand signals in the dark with pouring rain?

Hand signals allow virtually nothing for nuance. Move to starboard...how far?

We consider ours one of the best pieces of necessary gear aboard.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #20  
Old 06-26-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Narragansett Bay
Posts: 9,490
Thanks: 10
Thanked 159 Times in 145 Posts
Rep Power: 6
Minnewaska will become famous soon enough Minnewaska will become famous soon enough
Re: Anchor Setting Woes

While all chain is the right choice for high chafing areas, there is another advantage.

A knot is always weaker than the line itself. I worry as much about the connection of the rode to the chain or anchor failing.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeanneau 54DS

In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair. Margaritas fix everything.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Anchor woes bobdamiano Gear & Maintenance 13 06-07-2010 03:57 PM
Setting a trip line to an anchor Skipper52 General Discussion (sailing related) 39 02-11-2010 11:34 AM
Pratical depth limits when setting anchor MazeRat7 Seamanship & Navigation 10 01-06-2010 01:05 AM
Wombat's Woes tdw Gear & Maintenance 26 10-24-2007 10:00 PM
Curious Customs: Setting Price Before Setting Sail? Dav-O Boat Review and Purchase Forum 9 03-23-2002 08:01 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:43 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.