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Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Seamanship & Navigation
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Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.


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  #41  
Old 06-28-2013
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Re: Anchor Setting Woes

Great video
We got struck by lightning a few years ago and now I cower inside when its around.
I was amazed by how flat the water was, I am used to even short storms generating more of sea.

It does illustrate some of the difficulties comparing experiences.

This video was in much the same wind strength but the sea state is very different.
Sorry its not very good quality there is to much wind-borne spray to risk a good camera, but its only short.



http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u...D58FC80F70.mp4
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Old 06-28-2013
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Re: Anchor Setting Woes

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Originally Posted by noelex77 View Post
Great video
We got struck by lightning a few years ago and now I cower inside when its around.
I was amazed by how flat the water was, I am used to even short storms generating more of sea.

It does illustrate some of the difficulties comparing experiences.

This video was in much the same wind strength but the sea state is very different.
Sorry its not very good quality there is to much wind-borne spray to risk a good camera, but its only short.http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u...D58FC80F70.mp4
The wind was coming off the shore during the peak and my boat was only about 300-400 yards from shore. In the peak of the storm I estimate the waves at my boat to have increased from 0" to 1.5 + feet in a matter of about 1 minute.. That is a pretty good chop for 300-400 yards in that short of a duration....
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  #43  
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Re: Anchor Setting Woes

I wonder about trying to get it to set too early. It is likely to go in at too shallow an angle, and with later strain pull out.
The problem with backing down under power is prop walk then the bow blowing off. I prefer to let the boat move with the wind. Then let it settle and come under tension then apply power. It is a bit difficult to let out the right amount of scope as you move back so there may be some slack initially so it takes a bit of time to let it tension up naturally. But at that point the angles are such that it will dig deep.
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Re: Anchor Setting Woes

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Originally Posted by MedSailor View Post
I get the impression that the Chesapeake is soft mud in many places. I'm surprised that nobody here has yet mentioned the folly of using too much chain with a danforth style anchor in soft mud.

You heard right, there can be such thing as too much chain (in special circumstances).

If the mud is soft, and the chain heavy, the shank of the anchor can pivot BELOW the flukes. You drag with the shank buried and the flukes stay on the surface. This is especially problematic if you set your danforth style anchor with a lot of scope. I know this is counter-intuative to setting every other type of anchor, but I think it's your problem.

Quote from an email I got directly from Fortress anchors in 2008 on this very subject:
..."One downside of using more chain is that with any “pivoting fluke” type of anchor, such as the Fortress, Dan forth, etc. the extra weight of the chain can sink the flukes below the shank [he actually means sink the shank below the flukes--Med] if you are using a long scope in a very soft bottom, like soft mud. I have attached an image which may help you to visualize this.

To prevent this from happening, you simply need to permanently install the Mud Palms on the anchor, which are included with all Fortress anchors. The Mud Palms will lift the rear of the anchor up and force the flukes to take a more aggressive angle into the bottom. You should also use a shorter scope in a soft bottom when initially setting the anchor, which will keep the shank up so that the flukes will dig in first."...


From Fortress's website (see point #8):Fortress Safe Anchoring Guide


If you have a bunch of scope out, 30ft of chain and you're setting it slowly, odds are it won't work in soft mud. I've had this happen and confirmed what was happening with scuba gear. You are better off setting your danforth with short scope (fortress recommends 2:1), to ensure you are pulling up on the stock enough that it is not below the horizontal and only after it's set you can add your scope to 5-7:1 and back up on it hard.

There is nothing wrong with a danforth style anchor area for your bottom types. I have over a hundred nights at anchor on a Fortress and it worked, but setting it was tricky and required skill. Sometimes I had to try 4 times (but usually got it first time).

While I say there is nothing wrong with the fortress/danforth (I have 3 fortresses aboard) I STRONGY prefer the Mantus anchor or the genuine Bruce for their setting ability. If you get an Mantus, Rocna, or Mansun you'll never go back. Actually... now that I mention it, has anyone ever heard of anyone going back from a next-gen anchor?

Happy anchoring and thanks for the good question!

MedSailor
A wide angle may work in mud, but on anything harder, it causes a danforth to flip up on it side and drag forever. Every degree over 32 degrees on a danforth reduces its holding power in hard sand by 50% Try dragging a danforth with a wider than 32 degree fluke to shank angle, on sand, and you will see exactly what I mean.
I remember sailing fron Vanuatu into Lautoka , The depth sounder said ten feet so I put out a stern danforth , slowly. With 100 fet of rode out it hadn't hit bottom. When I pulled it in, the flukes were pointed up, and it was flying along, just below the surface.
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Re: Anchor Setting Woes

And remember at 2 am in the rain when a 40 knt squall hits nobody ever says I need a smaller anchor and less chain.

Which is why I have a 60lb CQR and 220 feet of 3/8th chain with a second similar set up in reserve. This on a lightish 44 ft mono. Why all chain well I have had a rope rode on a stern anchor chafe through in less than 2 hours. Coral is abrasive.

The boat came with a manual anchor winch, I changed this for and electric one and regard this as a piece of safety gear. Coming in tired after a long sail I am willing and able to reanchor several times to get a good grip.
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Re: Anchor Setting Woes

Rope definitly doesnt work in coral. I use wire rope on my drum winch down there.No justification for anything but mostly rope in the high latitudes where there is no coral.15 feet of chain is plenty up here, especially with a 30 lb kellet.
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Re: Anchor Setting Woes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
.......I think my next toy may be an Ultra but I just can't bring myself to have a SS "bling" anchor, despite how well designed it may be... Unfortunately that anchor can not be built in galvanized due to design...
DO IT !!!!!!!

I've got to know if that bling works. Its a good looking anchor, even though I wouldn't necessarily want it in SS either.

Isn't the shank a hollow tube? I presume that is to allow the weighted blades to roll over to the bottom, but I wonder what kind of side load it would take.

You've got to test one of those for us. It's your duty. You drew us all in, after all.
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Old 06-29-2013
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Re: Anchor Setting Woes

I'm with Maine...just buy a Mantus and sleep well:

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Re: Anchor Setting Woes

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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
I'm with Maine...just buy a Mantus and sleep well:....
Gotta say. I'm not a fan of the bolts for a permanent anchor. Crevice corrosion, or at the least corrosion in the bolts that needs to be inspected regularly.
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Re: Anchor Setting Woes

I'll check those as we go along and let you know how the thing weathers, Minne. I know that's a concern of some.

The customer service is insanely awesome though. Greg K. personally put that anchor on my boat because I couldn't get down when they were open. I'll always support a company like that.

The gravy is - it's a great anchor at a great price.
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Last edited by smackdaddy; 06-29-2013 at 10:53 PM.
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