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Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.


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  #51  
Old 06-29-2013
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Re: Anchor Setting Woes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
Gotta say. I'm not a fan of the bolts for a permanent anchor. Crevice corrosion, or at the least corrosion in the bolts that needs to be inspected regularly.
I thought crevice corrosion was something that happened to stainless steel in an anerobic environment, not galvenized steel.

Good thing there are no bolts in your current setup to worry about.... you DID get that chain/anchor splice made up without having to use a shackle right?

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  #52  
Old 06-30-2013
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Re: Anchor Setting Woes

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Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
Just wondering out loud here but does that micro-burst at 3:00 am that rotates you 180 degrees and blows 50 knots allow your anchor to "settle" before it begins its abuse on your "coaxed and coerced" set.....?????

Who is allowing your anchor to "settle" on a re-set in the middle of the night? Does Mother Nature care? Do you get up at 3:00am and go through the motions all over and coax it to set, then wait a half hour, dringk a cocktail, then back down a little more then wait some more, then apply 1000RPM to finally test it? How do you ever get any sleep..?

Sorry but if an anchor needs to "settle" and needs coersion or coaxing it is not the anchor I want, and I've owned and currently own them....

This is just SOME of the anchors I own (some of these are lawn ornaments to me and will never be used again):



We can set any of our new gen anchors, Spade, Rocna, Manson Supreme or Mantus within inches then apply at wide open throttle and bury it into the bottom measured in feet not inches.

I want an anchor that sets, and more importantly RESETS, all on its own without caressing, whispering in its ear or coaxing it to set.....
Amen...I like to sleep also. 3:30 cocktails give me insomnia and nightmares
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  #53  
Old 06-30-2013
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Re: Anchor Setting Woes

Quote:
Originally Posted by MedSailor View Post
I thought crevice corrosion was something that happened to stainless steel in an anerobic environment, not galvenized steel.

Good thing there are no bolts in your current setup to worry about.... you DID get that chain/anchor splice made up without having to use a shackle right?

MedSailor
Alright, wiseguy..........

First, I thought the bolts were stainless, even on the galvanized anchor. Can someone confirm? Second, I said OR inspect them regularly.

The threaded clevis on the shackle is a good point. I do inspect mine and it is right on top of the deck to do so. Those anchor bolts would require you to pull the anchor up on deck for the same access, which would be a pain for a larger anchor. Plus, I safety wire the threaded clevis on the shackle. I wonder how you can know the Mantus bolts can't back out.

Now listen, I'm not trying to bash the Mantus Anchor. Sounds like it performs well and it really seems to make sense as a disassembled backup. I'm just not loving the idea of the bolts on permanently deployed anchor.
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  #54  
Old 06-30-2013
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Re: Anchor Setting Woes

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Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
Alright, wiseguy..........
I'm just having a bit of fun, no worries.

The bolts on the mantus are galvanized. You ARE right that the bolts are another potential point of failure and another point to inspect. Personally I feel they are so overbuilt that it's not an issue, but I will have to inspect them once in a while.

What about welds, like on a rocna (the mantus has welded joints too)? Welds can go bad if not done correctly and are "technically" a point of failure too and should probably be inspected. That said, I never really worry about welds except for stainless...

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Last edited by MedSailor; 06-30-2013 at 11:20 AM.
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Old 06-30-2013
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Anchor Setting Woes

All

Thanks for the feedback. Lots to think about. We are currently on a multi-day trip and hopefully will get to practice. Also investigating the new "modern" anchors.

Josh
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  #56  
Old 07-21-2013
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Re: Anchor Setting Woes

Used to use a Danforth. It held pretty well but sometimes would not set in the Hudson River mud. A clam shell would jam in the flukes and keep it from setting.Switched out to a Kingston Plow with 27 feet of chain, and it sets every time on my C&C 29 II.
I've used the plow in mud, sand, and ?? with great results.
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  #57  
Old 07-22-2013
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Re: Anchor Setting Woes

Quote:
Originally Posted by MedSailor View Post
I'm just having a bit of fun, no worries.

The bolts on the mantus are galvanized. You ARE right that the bolts are another potential point of failure and another point to inspect. Personally I feel they are so overbuilt that it's not an issue, but I will have to inspect them once in a while.

What about welds, like on a rocna (the mantus has welded joints too)? Welds can go bad if not done correctly and are "technically" a point of failure too and should probably be inspected. That said, I never really worry about welds except for stainless...

MedSailor
Keep in mind this simple fact.

Each of the FOUR bolts holding the shank to the fluke on a Mantus is larger than the SINGLE/ONE screw you have in your shackle......
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  #58  
Old 09-01-2013
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Re: Anchor Setting Woes

You also asked a question about communication between "anchor crew" and helmsman.

We have worked out simple signals to indicate

anchor down (arm straight up)
reverse (arm out, crooked elbow, hand down)
add speed (hand up, make circles)
idle (arm out, flat hand, horizontal back and forth)
cut engine (hand slice across the throat)
anchor up (same as anchor down, but since you cannot do both at once, there should be no confusion with that)
forward (arm out, crooked elbow, hand up)
go in given direction (point)

I listen to the change in engine noise to verify that the helmsman (my wife) received and acted on the signal. If not, I repeat til she does (she may have briefly looked elsewhere to check relationship with other boats). I need not look back unless I feel like it.

What this does not address is when the helmsman decides we have to change or abandon the process. It has happened only a few times to us, and we have not perfected that. I think a simple whistle would alert me to look back and then go check at the cockpit what's going on, or have some signal such as

abandon process
too close to other boat (point at boat, horizontal space between hands)
too shallow (vertical space between hands, narrowing)


If I come across something not covered by this, I walk back to the helmsman to say what is going on and what to do since talking from the foredeck, through a dodger, with the engine idling away requires shouting... and that is just entertainment for anyone anchored nearby.

As to the anchor set up itself, we have 100' of chain that covers us for most of our anchorages, supplemented with 150' of line, only 20-30' of which has ever been in the water. The more chain, the happier (and more mud collected, of course). If you constantly deal with mud (we do not) I would certainly invest in a high power bow hose-down!
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  #59  
Old 09-02-2013
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Re: Anchor Setting Woes

The Finesse Method of Anchoring (no engine, no heavy gear, no next generation anchor, no windlass and no extended length of chain):

For all you new sailors, to dispel the ridiculous notion that you need to buy all this heavy equipment and used complicated procedures to anchor effectively, here is my normal procedure - how I sailed in and out of my anchorage, and used light weight gear, to anchor my 7,800 lb Pearson 28, under sail only, this past Saturday night at Sandy Point in Great Wicomico River (I don't remember ever having "anchoring woes" or dragging anchor in the many years I have been sailing):

1. Drop jib as I approach anchorage;
2. Remove 12 lb. Danforth 12H anchor (YES just 12 lbs.) and 6 feet of chain from cockpit locker and secure to foredeck;
3. Remove 200' ft. of 3/8" (YES only 3/8") three-strand nylon anchor line and secure to foredeck;
4. Tack into anchorage under mainsail only (NO ENGINE);
5. Drop mainsail just downwind of intended anchoring place;
6. Drift into position slowly with no sail and no engine;
7. Gently lower anchor by hand until it just touches bottom;
8. Slowly allow anchor and chain to drop and pay out 100' ft. of anchor line as boat drifts away from anchoring point;
9. Cleat anchor line; and
10. Note with satisfaction how easily and effectively boat is anchored.

Next morning:

1. Ready boat to sail;
2. Put on gloves;
3. Raise mainsail with wheel locked;
4. Pull in anchor line over bow pulpit hand over hand until line is vertical;
5. As anchor breaks free and chain appears, move line back and forth to clean chain and anchor;
6. Raise anchor and place on foredeck;
7. Unlock wheel, trim sail and set auto pilot;
8. Remove anchor from line and replace in cockpit locker;
9. Coil anchor line and replace in cockpit locker;
10. Raise jib and trim; and,
11. Sail away.

That's right folks - no next generation anchor, no engine, no length of chain, no windlass, no backing up the boat - all easily down by hand with no particular strain. The anchor, chain and line are light enough to be easily lifted out of a cockpit locker - no heavy weight in the bow and no need for a windlass.

Although I now have a 12 lb. Danforth, a 20 lb. Danforth, a 25 lb. CQR, and a 7 lb. Mantus, I have never had to the need to use anything more than the 12 lb. Danforth.

The most important elements:

1. Pick a good anchorage - the single most important of all;
2. Plan it out;
3. Take your time; and,
4. Allow the boat to set naturally to anchor.

Last edited by jameswilson29; 09-02-2013 at 07:48 AM.
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Old 09-02-2013
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Re: Anchor Setting Woes

Quote:
Originally Posted by jameswilson29 View Post

That's right folks - no next generation anchor, no engine, no length of chain, no windlass, no backing up the boat - all easily down by hand with no particular strain. The anchor, chain and line are light enough to be easily lifted out of a cockpit locker - no heavy weight in the bow and no need for a windlass.
The Danforth can do very well in goog holding ground with a constant direction of pull.

What is the strongest wind you have anchored with the 12 LB Danforth?
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