Know the rules! - Page 4 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Seamanship & Navigation
 Not a Member? 

Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.


Like Tree28Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #31  
Old 06-27-2013
Sal Paradise's Avatar
Captain Obvious
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: New York
Posts: 722
Thanks: 13
Thanked 22 Times in 22 Posts
Rep Power: 2
Sal Paradise is on a distinguished road
Re: Know the rules!

Paul

And whats your plan if the other skipper panics and does and emergency tack at the last second? He's supposed to trust the safety of his family to you, who he's never met? Better to leave some room for comfort, I say.

But that is what they say - " I was going to pass behind you!"

To which I answer " You weren't doing a very good job of it!"
__________________
Sal Paradise
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #32  
Old 06-27-2013
mark2gmtrans's Avatar
sailing soon
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 810
Thanks: 2
Thanked 29 Times in 29 Posts
Rep Power: 2
mark2gmtrans is on a distinguished road
Send a message via Yahoo to mark2gmtrans
Re: Know the rules!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal Paradise View Post
Paul

And whats your plan if the other skipper panics and does and emergency tack at the last second? He's supposed to trust the safety of his family to you, who he's never met? Better to leave some room for comfort, I say.

But that is what they say - " I was going to pass behind you!"

To which I answer " You weren't doing a very good job of it!"
New term for ramming "Passing Amidship" hehe
groggy and CaribDream like this.
__________________
It is good to learn from your mistakes, but much better to learn from the mistakes of others...
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #33  
Old 06-27-2013
BarryL's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 1,595
Thanks: 3
Thanked 25 Times in 24 Posts
Rep Power: 12
BarryL is on a distinguished road
Re: Know the rules!

Hey,

I find this an interesting thread.

Where I sail there are a number of charter fishing boats that take ~50 people out for a few hours of fishing. The boats go all over the place, drop anchor for a few minutes, then up anchor and go somewhere else, anchor, etc. They motor at around 10 kts and don't seem to give a damn who else is near by. Just this last Tuesday I was sailing at around 5 kts, heading in a straight line. One of the fishing boats was on my starboard, motoring in a converging course. My wife noticed the boat and asked what my plans were. I stated that since we were sailing, we were the stand on vessel and obligated to hold our course. The fishing boat, as the give way vessel, must take early and substantial action to change course. This was all well and good but the fishing boat didn't change course. I could clearly see someone at the helm, but they didn't appear to be paying any attention to me.

When we were about 1 minute away from collision I altered course and went astern of the fishing boat. I didn't crash gybe, but it was large change of course and my sails luffed until the boat passed me.

What should I have done? I was paying careful attention and when it was apparent (to me) that the fishing vessel wasn't going to alter course I did. Should I have hailed him on the radio to ask his intentions? Should I have waited longer before altering course? Should I have sounded my horn 5 times? I find the thing annoying because there is LOTS of water and no reason to ever get within 100 yard of each other.

Of course, about 1 minute after I crossed his wake he dropped anchor.

Barry
__________________
Barry Lenoble
Deep Blue C, 2002 C&C 110
Mt. Sinai, NY

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #34  
Old 06-27-2013
mark2gmtrans's Avatar
sailing soon
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 810
Thanks: 2
Thanked 29 Times in 29 Posts
Rep Power: 2
mark2gmtrans is on a distinguished road
Send a message via Yahoo to mark2gmtrans
Re: Know the rules!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryL View Post
Hey,

I find this an interesting thread.

Where I sail there are a number of charter fishing boats that take ~50 people out for a few hours of fishing. The boats go all over the place, drop anchor for a few minutes, then up anchor and go somewhere else, anchor, etc. They motor at around 10 kts and don't seem to give a damn who else is near by. Just this last Tuesday I was sailing at around 5 kts, heading in a straight line. One of the fishing boats was on my starboard, motoring in a converging course. My wife noticed the boat and asked what my plans were. I stated that since we were sailing, we were the stand on vessel and obligated to hold our course. The fishing boat, as the give way vessel, must take early and substantial action to change course. This was all well and good but the fishing boat didn't change course. I could clearly see someone at the helm, but they didn't appear to be paying any attention to me.

When we were about 1 minute away from collision I altered course and went astern of the fishing boat. I didn't crash gybe, but it was large change of course and my sails luffed until the boat passed me.

What should I have done? I was paying careful attention and when it was apparent (to me) that the fishing vessel wasn't going to alter course I did. Should I have hailed him on the radio to ask his intentions? Should I have waited longer before altering course? Should I have sounded my horn 5 times? I find the thing annoying because there is LOTS of water and no reason to ever get within 100 yard of each other.

Of course, about 1 minute after I crossed his wake he dropped anchor.

Barry
You could have done any of those things, and you could also have reported his hull number to the CG or Harbour Police, whoever is in charge of enforcement. If they get enough complaints before he rams someone they may have a few words with the operator of the vessel.
__________________
It is good to learn from your mistakes, but much better to learn from the mistakes of others...
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #35  
Old 06-27-2013
ASA and PSIA Instructor
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,436
Thanks: 6
Thanked 16 Times in 16 Posts
Rep Power: 15
sailingfool will become famous soon enough
Re: Know the rules!

Quote:
Originally Posted by skelmir View Post
T.. According to the rules you first course of action should have been five short blasts and only after they still did nothing should you alter course....
That seems like an over-reading of rule 34.d...I have not heard a non-commercial vessel sound a danger signal in half a century of boating. I guess someone would have to offer case law on this...
__________________
Certified...in several regards...

Last edited by sailingfool; 06-27-2013 at 01:20 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #36  
Old 06-27-2013
ASA and PSIA Instructor
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,436
Thanks: 6
Thanked 16 Times in 16 Posts
Rep Power: 15
sailingfool will become famous soon enough
Re: Know the rules!

Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewoliv View Post
....
The second instance: I am under power being approached by a 40+ foot Beneteau from the port side also under power. I have the right of way but the Benneteau didn't seem to know that or care. Most "sailors" don't know this rule so we aimed for the Beneteau's stern. ...
FWIW, this maneuver violates rule Rule 17.c:
"A power-driven vessel which takes action in a crossing situation in accordance with subparagraph (a)(ii) of this Rule to avoid collision with another power-driven vessel shall, if the circumstances of the case admit, not alter course to port for a vessel on her own port side." I call this the Andrea Doria rule.

Sort of humorous given the point of your post. You gotta be a little careful when lecturing on the rules...
groggy likes this.
__________________
Certified...in several regards...

Last edited by sailingfool; 06-27-2013 at 12:28 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #37  
Old 06-27-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Maine
Posts: 586
Thanks: 0
Thanked 16 Times in 16 Posts
Rep Power: 4
DonScribner is on a distinguished road
Re: Know the rules!

Been there. Sometimes it seems like since I only have a 25 footer, I must be the one to yeild. On a starboard tack heading towards the mouth of the Harraseeket, a 35+ footer on a port tack cut right in front of me. It was plain that we were on a collision course so, when it was very obvious how this would play out, I tacked hart to starboard, stalling in the wind. As he passed, with a hardy wave, the wind slowly pulled me around until sails filled and off we went, missing his aft by about 100 feet. It must have looked like I knew what I was doing. There have been others also. OY!
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #38  
Old 06-27-2013
zz4gta's Avatar
I don't discuss my member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Chesapeake Bay
Posts: 2,440
Thanks: 0
Thanked 16 Times in 16 Posts
Rep Power: 8
zz4gta is on a distinguished road
Re: Know the rules!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonScribner View Post
missing his aft by about 100 feet.
Is that a typo?
My advice, don't sail onto a racecourse.
__________________
Merit 25 # 764 "Audrey"
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #39  
Old 06-29-2013
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: 06420
Posts: 10
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 0
Peter06420 is on a distinguished road
Re: Know the rules!

What gets me is that the _required_ class in this state gets you about as much knowledge as is required for a learner's permit for your car, maybe less. (I teach the boating class, but I'm just guessing about the learner's permit part)

And yet, it qualifies the holder of the certificate to drive a boat as large as a big-rig on the highway (ok, a _small_ big-rig, but you get the point).

The best we can do with that class is hope that they realize that there is so much more to know than we can teach them and maybe, just maybe they'll go out and learn more from other sources.
__________________
It is by Will Alone I Set My Ride In Motion.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #40  
Old 06-29-2013
bljones's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: South Coast Ontario
Posts: 8,130
Thanks: 32
Thanked 70 Times in 63 Posts
Rep Power: 7
bljones has a spectacular aura about bljones has a spectacular aura about
Re: Know the rules!

Quote:
Originally Posted by skelmir View Post
Technically both those cases are within the rules. You were the stand-on boat but choose not to be by reacting first. According to the rules you first course of action should have been five short blasts and only after they still did nothing should you alter course. Not saying that you are wrong but if there was a collision and you altered course first then you are not necessarily in the right anymore.
"So there i was, enjoying a nice leisurely sail on my hinckley, telltales flying clean, nice heel, good turn of speed, so smooth and calm my wife could read the newspaper on the bow. i see this other boat on an intersecting course, and figure if he needs me to give way, he'll blast his horn, or hail on 16.
I see him, he sees me.
Silence from the other boat, as we get closer... and closer.
Just as I am about to give way, he bears off, which was generous of him.
He gives me a dirty look as we cross. I notice his horn is nowhere to be seen...."

before you point out how wrong others are, make damn sure you are dead nuts right.
capttb likes this.
__________________
It's 5 o'clock somewhere:


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
BVI nav rules KeithW Seamanship & Navigation 3 11-28-2010 04:31 PM
Rules? SteveInMD Seamanship & Navigation 14 08-21-2009 02:53 PM
Nav Rules NewsReader Mass Bay Sailors 0 08-30-2006 12:15 AM
Rules km2x Racing 8 07-12-2006 10:28 AM
New Rules paulk Racing 0 01-21-2002 03:52 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:26 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.