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post #31 of 58 Old 06-27-2013
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Re: Know the rules!

Paul

And whats your plan if the other skipper panics and does and emergency tack at the last second? He's supposed to trust the safety of his family to you, who he's never met? Better to leave some room for comfort, I say.

But that is what they say - " I was going to pass behind you!"

To which I answer " You weren't doing a very good job of it!"

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post #32 of 58 Old 06-27-2013
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Re: Know the rules!

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Originally Posted by Sal Paradise View Post
Paul

And whats your plan if the other skipper panics and does and emergency tack at the last second? He's supposed to trust the safety of his family to you, who he's never met? Better to leave some room for comfort, I say.

But that is what they say - " I was going to pass behind you!"

To which I answer " You weren't doing a very good job of it!"
New term for ramming "Passing Amidship" hehe
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post #33 of 58 Old 06-27-2013
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Re: Know the rules!

Hey,

I find this an interesting thread.

Where I sail there are a number of charter fishing boats that take ~50 people out for a few hours of fishing. The boats go all over the place, drop anchor for a few minutes, then up anchor and go somewhere else, anchor, etc. They motor at around 10 kts and don't seem to give a damn who else is near by. Just this last Tuesday I was sailing at around 5 kts, heading in a straight line. One of the fishing boats was on my starboard, motoring in a converging course. My wife noticed the boat and asked what my plans were. I stated that since we were sailing, we were the stand on vessel and obligated to hold our course. The fishing boat, as the give way vessel, must take early and substantial action to change course. This was all well and good but the fishing boat didn't change course. I could clearly see someone at the helm, but they didn't appear to be paying any attention to me.

When we were about 1 minute away from collision I altered course and went astern of the fishing boat. I didn't crash gybe, but it was large change of course and my sails luffed until the boat passed me.

What should I have done? I was paying careful attention and when it was apparent (to me) that the fishing vessel wasn't going to alter course I did. Should I have hailed him on the radio to ask his intentions? Should I have waited longer before altering course? Should I have sounded my horn 5 times? I find the thing annoying because there is LOTS of water and no reason to ever get within 100 yard of each other.

Of course, about 1 minute after I crossed his wake he dropped anchor.

Barry

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post #34 of 58 Old 06-27-2013
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Re: Know the rules!

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Originally Posted by BarryL View Post
Hey,

I find this an interesting thread.

Where I sail there are a number of charter fishing boats that take ~50 people out for a few hours of fishing. The boats go all over the place, drop anchor for a few minutes, then up anchor and go somewhere else, anchor, etc. They motor at around 10 kts and don't seem to give a damn who else is near by. Just this last Tuesday I was sailing at around 5 kts, heading in a straight line. One of the fishing boats was on my starboard, motoring in a converging course. My wife noticed the boat and asked what my plans were. I stated that since we were sailing, we were the stand on vessel and obligated to hold our course. The fishing boat, as the give way vessel, must take early and substantial action to change course. This was all well and good but the fishing boat didn't change course. I could clearly see someone at the helm, but they didn't appear to be paying any attention to me.

When we were about 1 minute away from collision I altered course and went astern of the fishing boat. I didn't crash gybe, but it was large change of course and my sails luffed until the boat passed me.

What should I have done? I was paying careful attention and when it was apparent (to me) that the fishing vessel wasn't going to alter course I did. Should I have hailed him on the radio to ask his intentions? Should I have waited longer before altering course? Should I have sounded my horn 5 times? I find the thing annoying because there is LOTS of water and no reason to ever get within 100 yard of each other.

Of course, about 1 minute after I crossed his wake he dropped anchor.

Barry
You could have done any of those things, and you could also have reported his hull number to the CG or Harbour Police, whoever is in charge of enforcement. If they get enough complaints before he rams someone they may have a few words with the operator of the vessel.

It is good to learn from your mistakes, but much better to learn from the mistakes of others...
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post #35 of 58 Old 06-27-2013
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Re: Know the rules!

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T.. According to the rules you first course of action should have been five short blasts and only after they still did nothing should you alter course....
That seems like an over-reading of rule 34.d...I have not heard a non-commercial vessel sound a danger signal in half a century of boating. I guess someone would have to offer case law on this...

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Last edited by sailingfool; 06-27-2013 at 01:20 PM.
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post #36 of 58 Old 06-27-2013
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Re: Know the rules!

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Originally Posted by andrewoliv View Post
....
The second instance: I am under power being approached by a 40+ foot Beneteau from the port side also under power. I have the right of way but the Benneteau didn't seem to know that or care. Most "sailors" don't know this rule so we aimed for the Beneteau's stern. ...
FWIW, this maneuver violates rule Rule 17.c:
"A power-driven vessel which takes action in a crossing situation in accordance with subparagraph (a)(ii) of this Rule to avoid collision with another power-driven vessel shall, if the circumstances of the case admit, not alter course to port for a vessel on her own port side." I call this the Andrea Doria rule.

Sort of humorous given the point of your post. You gotta be a little careful when lecturing on the rules...
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Last edited by sailingfool; 06-27-2013 at 12:28 PM.
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post #37 of 58 Old 06-27-2013
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Re: Know the rules!

Been there. Sometimes it seems like since I only have a 25 footer, I must be the one to yeild. On a starboard tack heading towards the mouth of the Harraseeket, a 35+ footer on a port tack cut right in front of me. It was plain that we were on a collision course so, when it was very obvious how this would play out, I tacked hart to starboard, stalling in the wind. As he passed, with a hardy wave, the wind slowly pulled me around until sails filled and off we went, missing his aft by about 100 feet. It must have looked like I knew what I was doing. There have been others also. OY!
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post #38 of 58 Old 06-27-2013
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Re: Know the rules!

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missing his aft by about 100 feet.
Is that a typo?
My advice, don't sail onto a racecourse.

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post #39 of 58 Old 06-29-2013
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Re: Know the rules!

What gets me is that the _required_ class in this state gets you about as much knowledge as is required for a learner's permit for your car, maybe less. (I teach the boating class, but I'm just guessing about the learner's permit part)

And yet, it qualifies the holder of the certificate to drive a boat as large as a big-rig on the highway (ok, a _small_ big-rig, but you get the point).

The best we can do with that class is hope that they realize that there is so much more to know than we can teach them and maybe, just maybe they'll go out and learn more from other sources.

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post #40 of 58 Old 06-29-2013
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Re: Know the rules!

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Originally Posted by skelmir View Post
Technically both those cases are within the rules. You were the stand-on boat but choose not to be by reacting first. According to the rules you first course of action should have been five short blasts and only after they still did nothing should you alter course. Not saying that you are wrong but if there was a collision and you altered course first then you are not necessarily in the right anymore.
"So there i was, enjoying a nice leisurely sail on my hinckley, telltales flying clean, nice heel, good turn of speed, so smooth and calm my wife could read the newspaper on the bow. i see this other boat on an intersecting course, and figure if he needs me to give way, he'll blast his horn, or hail on 16.
I see him, he sees me.
Silence from the other boat, as we get closer... and closer.
Just as I am about to give way, he bears off, which was generous of him.
He gives me a dirty look as we cross. I notice his horn is nowhere to be seen...."

before you point out how wrong others are, make damn sure you are dead nuts right.
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