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Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Seamanship & Navigation
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Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.


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  #41  
Old 06-29-2013
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Re: Know the rules!

Well it's not always power boats. Today I was motor sail tacking down river, with wind as usual, coming straight up river. A guy in a Hunter 30 was doing the same but cross tacking and tagging along behind each move we made. A couple of times I just let my boat fall off and let him go by. Maybe they were learning how the H30 handles with just the main. (pretty good from I observed) My ole mast head rig is a slug with just the main. One time we were both tacking me to starboard him to port and we were coming bow to bow by maybe 50 yards.. and yup... ZOOM goes a stink pot right between 2 sailboats.. Again.. just easier to luff a little and not get excited. I then fell behind H30
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  #42  
Old 07-01-2013
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Re: Know the rules!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dvuyxx View Post
...sometimes out in the water it takes you a moment to calculate who is leeward, windward, bigger, smaller or French.... but mostly it requires patience. A good rule of thumb is to keep a safe distance and assume no one knows what they are doing.
Amen to that, David
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  #43  
Old 07-11-2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deniseO30 View Post
Well it's not always power boats. Today I was motor sail tacking down river, with wind as usual, coming straight up river. A guy in a Hunter 30 was doing the same but cross tacking and tagging along behind each move we made. A couple of times I just let my boat fall off and let him go by. Maybe they were learning how the H30 handles with just the main. (pretty good from I observed) My ole mast head rig is a slug with just the main. One time we were both tacking me to starboard him to port and we were coming bow to bow by maybe 50 yards.. and yup... ZOOM goes a stink pot right between 2 sailboats.. Again.. just easier to luff a little and not get excited. I then fell behind H30
If you were motor sailing, then you weren't a sailboat, you were a powerboat.
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  #44  
Old 07-11-2013
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Re: Know the rules!

What if a sailboat is is flying a spinnaker DDW and you're on a starboard tack 90 degrees to them? I have always been a little fuzzy about that one? I assume I have right of way but...there's rules and there's courtesy.

Boat with Spinnaker is not flying their main sail
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Last edited by T37Chef; 07-11-2013 at 07:27 PM.
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  #45  
Old 07-11-2013
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Re: Know the rules!

Quote:
Originally Posted by T37Chef View Post
What if a sailboat is is flying a spinnaker DDW and you're on a starboard tack 90 degrees to them? I have always been a little fuzzy about that one? I assume I have right of way but...there's rules and there's courtesy.

Boat with Spinnaker is not flying their main sail
THERE IS NO RIGHT WAY.

But here is the line of thinking you should use.

What tack I am on? What tack is the other sailing vessel?

You are starboard. Them you cannot tell, if they were on port you would be stand-on.

Let's assume same tack - starboard. Windward gives way to leeward. You are leeward of them, they are windward of you. They are give-way, you are stand-on.

The problem occurs when you are on a port tack and a vessel is running wing-on-wing or with a spinnaker towards you. You cannot tell their tack. You are to keep clear. NOTE: no mention of stand-on or give-way.

This clearly spelled out in rule 12.

Rule 12 - Sailing Vessels

(a) When two sailing vessels are approaching one another, so as to involve risk of collision, one of them shall keep out of the way of the other as follows:

(i) when each has the wind on a different side, the vessel which has the wind on the port side shall keep out of the way of the other;
(ii) when both have the wind on the same side, the vessel which is to windward shall keep out of the way of the vessel which is to leeward;
(iii) if a vessel with the wind on the port side sees a vessel to windward and cannot determine with certainty whether the other vessel has the wind on the port or on the starboard side, she shall keep out of the way of the other.

(b) For the purposes of this Rule the windward side shall be deemed to be the side opposite that on which the mainsail is carried or, in the case of a square-rigged vessel, the side opposite to that on which the largest fore-and-aft sail is carried.

A sailing vessel on a starboard tack close-hauled is stand-on to all other sailing vessels, unless one can point higher.

BTW - it is foolish to sail with a spinnaker and no main.
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Last edited by jackdale; 07-11-2013 at 07:46 PM.
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  #46  
Old 07-11-2013
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Re: Know the rules!

Quote:
Originally Posted by marcusc130 View Post
If you were motor sailing, then you weren't a sailboat, you were a powerboat.
Actually you are still a sailboat, you are not a sailing-vessel, you are a power-driven vessel.

Rule 3


(b) The term "power-driven vessel" means any vessel propelled by machinery.

(c) The term "sailing vessel" means any vessel under sail provided that propelling machinery, if fitted, is not being used.

Yes the words and semantics matter.
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  #47  
Old 07-11-2013
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Re: Know the rules!

Thanks Jackdale!
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  #48  
Old 07-11-2013
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Re: Know the rules!

Quote:
Originally Posted by nolatom View Post
Sail/sail: starboard over port, leeward over windward

Sail/power: sail wins (unless power is *really* huge and/or hard to steer e.g. deep draft, restricted, etc and you should't be that close to him in the first place, what were you thinking?)

How hard was that??
The hard part might recognizing the appropriate day shapes or lights for RAM, NUC, CBD, engaged in fishing , etc.. Although they tend to be big.
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  #49  
Old 07-11-2013
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Re: Know the rules!

Quote:
Originally Posted by T37Chef View Post
Thanks Jackdale!
You are welcome. I was hospitalized last week and am catching up on more complicated posts. Tapatalk and a smartphone are just not feasible in that respect.

Since I am house bound for a while and off the water, I will be around a bit more.
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  #50  
Old 07-11-2013
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Re: Know the rules!

Chef, this has actually happened to me this year – TWICE! Both times I was flying a spin shorthanded and with rookie crew members to boot. Both times we were on starboard board and the crossing boat was beam reaching also on starboard. Because the beam reacher was leeward of us as the situation developed, he was privileged and we burdened. The complications for us is we were flying the A-kite at the time and our only option was to head up and go in his same direction albeit on our ear. (trust me, you don’t want to crash gybe a kite with a rookie crew on San Francisco Bay in the afternoon. Round-downs always end ugly). We were able to execute our heating up maneuver without anyone going over the side though it took a bit getting the kite back under control. The second time it happened, the other skipper was pretty thoughtful and he hardened up a little bit and he crossed safely behind us. Sometimes, common courtesy is a privileged skipper giving up his “rights” in order to help another skipper out. That other skipper was a real mensch – he altered his course just enough to communicate his intentions to us and promptly went back to his base course without losing much, if any ground.
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Last edited by GeorgeB; 07-11-2013 at 09:05 PM.
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