Limits of Captains authority - Page 2 - SailNet Community
Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.

 51Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #11 of 53 Old 08-07-2013
Yamsailor
 
Yamsailor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 813
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 10
 
Re: Limits of Captains authority

Can I assume this discussion is relating only to recreational sailboats and not when there is a Licensed Captain in charge?

There isn't a device on this world that can measure the indifference I have for that statement.
Yamsailor is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #12 of 53 Old 08-07-2013
Senior Member
 
pdqaltair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Posts: 2,601
Thanks: 1
Thanked 53 Times in 53 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
Re: Limits of Captains authority

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulinVictoria View Post
I don't expect anyone to do anything that I couldn't or wouldn't do myself.
In reality, all I ever ask of my guests is to hold this, pull that or grab something from below. Wait, that sounded bad.
Hard and fast rules are so difficult....

If I am an older "captain" I might very well ask younger crew to do things that would be difficult for me. Of course, I wouldn't leave the dock if that had not been sorted out first.

And really there are 2 sorts of sailing: trips with family and guests during which they are invited to help but captain can single hand if he wishes or needs to, and passages or races where team work in vigorous conditions is expected and some notion of chain of command is really needed. Two totally different concepts.

(when asked how he reached the starting holds on a difficult rock climbing problem that clearly favored taller climbers - he was perhaps 5'5")

"Well, I just climb up to them."

by Joe Brown, English rock climber




To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
pdqaltair is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #13 of 53 Old 08-07-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Chesapeake
Posts: 474
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
Re: Limits of Captains authority

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
"3. Sex has to be consensual between adults."
Oh, I see. You're going to pretend the sheep have no say in the matter?
lapworth is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #14 of 53 Old 08-07-2013
Senior Member
 
oceangirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 252
Thanks: 42
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
Re: Limits of Captains authority

Once had crew that couldn't stand watch properly. First night fell asleep, nearly getting us run down. Second night, couldn't recognize a collision course, nearly getting us run down. He was relieved of all watch duty. Captain (licensed)and I took over all watches, no more near collisions.

One authority captains don't have: to make an incompetent crew competent.
nolatom, JimMcGee, RainDog and 2 others like this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

~~Ocean Girl~~
~~Mrs. Rain Dog~~
1989 Pacific Seacraft Crealock 34 Hull# 142

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
oceangirl is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #15 of 53 Old 08-08-2013
Senior Member
 
MarkofSeaLife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,982
Thanks: 43
Thanked 122 Times in 103 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Dock
Re: Limits of Captains authority

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yamsailor View Post
Can I assume this discussion is relating only to recreational sailboats and not when there is a Licensed Captain in charge?
A "licensed" captain means nothing. The 'legality' to wear a funny little hat after you get a captains 'license' occurs in only one country, as far as I know: the USA.


As Sabreman said:
Quote:
Unless crew are in the military or employed by the ship with the captain as the supervisor, then in all other cases, "crew" are guests of the vessel. As such, the "captain" can't make them do anything. He can ask, plead, cajole or anything else, but the guests are free to do as they please.

The captain title is a courtesy but my legal authority is limited. While I am responsible for my guests safety, I can't make them do anything.

Sea Life
Notes on a Circumnavigation:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
MarkofSeaLife is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #16 of 53 Old 08-08-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 609
Thanks: 0
Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts
Rep Power: 15
 
Re: Limits of Captains authority

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkofSeaLife View Post
I think Sabreman is spot on.


BTW re the sex. I'm not into spanking. Well, not on watch anyway.
What about flogging? That has a tradition at sea!
MarkofSeaLife likes this.

CS 36M DIANTHUS
sailordave is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #17 of 53 Old 08-08-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Narragansett Bay
Posts: 11,226
Thanks: 46
Thanked 237 Times in 222 Posts
Rep Power: 7
   
Re: Limits of Captains authority

Here's where I think people get themselves all knotted up. For a boat to operate effectively, there needs to be some sort of understood and agreed upon leadership. There are many decisions to make underway and someone has to make them. If the boat wants to do them all like a commune, go ahead. Although, its well known that is time consuming and you may not always be given the time. The important issue is that everyone understands and agrees how decisions will be made, which could change underway or at each watch. Not knowing or agreeing to leadership is a recipe for disaster.

There is also someone aboard who will be considered responsible for the boats actions in the event any liability is incurred or laws broken. This is very specific by jurisdiction.

However, the idea of there being a Captain aboard a recreational vessel that has inherent authority over subordinates is silly. I will extend that to a boat in a race, without professional paid crew. Leadership needs to be understood and agreed to. In many cases, the owner does not default to leader for a given passage. The owner can refuse to allow his property to leave the dock, but crew must agree to leadership.
nolatom and Yamsailor like this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeanneau 54DS

In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair. Margaritas fix everything.
Minnewaska is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #18 of 53 Old 08-08-2013
Senior Member
 
MarkofSeaLife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,982
Thanks: 43
Thanked 122 Times in 103 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Dock
Re: Limits of Captains authority

Maybe the confusion in the USA is because they think the license to drive a boat makes them a "Captain"?

What does the actual license say?


In the rest of the world the word 'captain' is never used in the license to drive a boat.

[Aditional info]
I've just checked the net and in the USA there is no such thing, that I can find, that makes one a Captain.

The most common is the 6-pack license:

Quote:
Uninspected Passenger Vessel
Generally, operations that carry 6 or fewer passengers for hire are referred to as Uninspected Passenger Vessels (UPV), 6 Passenger (pax), or 6 Pack operations. .... the vessel operator must hold an Operator Uninspected Passenger Vessel (OUPV) license issued by the Coast Guard.
So that person is not a Captain, merely a vessel Operator.
If there is another type of license often used then lets have a look at it

[More additional]
I see how there can be misrepresentation when websites doing the exam call it a captains license:
http://www.boaterexam.com/usa/captainslicense/


Sea Life
Notes on a Circumnavigation:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by MarkofSeaLife; 08-08-2013 at 08:43 AM.
MarkofSeaLife is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #19 of 53 Old 08-08-2013
Senior Member
 
Sabreman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Yeocomico River, VA
Posts: 1,643
Thanks: 3
Thanked 18 Times in 15 Posts
Rep Power: 10
   
Re: Limits of Captains authority

Quote:
understood and agreed upon leadership
Agreed, it is not a legal authority, rather a consensual one based on respect. Big difference.

For recreational boaters, I think the whole "captain" thing is silly and probably an artifact of people watching too many movies. Personally, I don't use the term when referring to myself and am uncomfortable when someone calls me by the term. It's like calling oneself an "expert", its quite presumptuous.
JimMcGee and MarkofSeaLife like this.

Sabre 38 "Victoria"
Sabreman is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #20 of 53 Old 08-08-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Narragansett Bay
Posts: 11,226
Thanks: 46
Thanked 237 Times in 222 Posts
Rep Power: 7
   
Re: Limits of Captains authority

Mark,

The word Captain is absolutely a colloquialism in the US. Even the USCG uses it to address whomever calls them on the radio. They don't even ask if they are the leader, let alone actually a licensed Captain. It's just a nicety.

The real can of worms here is that there is absolutely no license, permit or otherwise required to skipper a boat here. Some require a safety course, which you need to be able to read and write at the third grade level to pass. It's probably based on our roots in freedom and will likely stay this way for some time. There is a good argument for someone aboard to have demonstrated some higher level of competence.
Yamsailor and MarkofSeaLife like this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeanneau 54DS

In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair. Margaritas fix everything.
Minnewaska is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
America’s Cup Event Authority Announces Focus on “Summer of Sailing” NewsReader News Feeds 0 01-08-2013 02:20 PM
Easley drubs Ports Authority for ferry cruise (The Myrtle Beach Sun News) NewsReader News Feeds 0 07-25-2006 04:15 AM
Easley demands Ports Authority repay money for party (News 14 Carolina) NewsReader News Feeds 0 07-24-2006 07:15 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome