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  #31  
Old 08-16-2013
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Re: Limits of Captains authority

When a vessel flies it's flag, it is legally a part of that country.

Quote:
Originally Posted by steel View Post
Traditionally most ships went to sea for extended periods, away from any legal jurisdiction.

Today many of us live under governments which are more totalitarian, and more involved with our daily lives than ever before. Just call 911 and government officers show up in minutes.

The idea of being completely separated from this government involvement for an extended of time may be a new concept to many people. A ship is like a country of its own, and somebody has to be in charge. There must be rules and authority for any group of people to function.

Many people are used to living with governments that have legislative, executive and judicial branches, and the concept that a king or other single person can make a rule and enforce it seems scary and strange. But that's how it has to be. Pick a captain who is reliable and wiser than you are, then you don't have to worry. If something bad happens that puts your lives in danger, then you can mutiny, just like people revolt against their governments.
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  #32  
Old 08-16-2013
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Re: Limits of Captains authority

All marriages performed by the Captain of this vessel shall be valid for the duration of the voyage.
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  #33  
Old 08-16-2013
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Re: Limits of Captains authority

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Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
All marriages performed by the Captain of this vessel shall be valid for the duration of the voyage.

That could actually be fantastic.
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Old 08-16-2013
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Re: Limits of Captains authority

Ashore, love is grand, but divorce starts at 500 grand. I've fixed that aboard our little country.
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  #35  
Old 08-16-2013
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Re: Limits of Captains authority

On the USNS Apache (my last sea going duty assignment) I was the CPOIC - Chief Petty Officer in Charge, as senior military on the ships assigned crew I was also the Officer in Charge.
If another group of military came aboard I was still the OIC regardless of rank or senority of the visitors (it happened all the time, especially SEAL and Mine warfare types. Some junior officers didn't get it and had to be shown the regulations and orders).

The ship was actually run by a civilian ships master, 1st mate and 14 other civilian crew. The officers of that crew down to the third mate could direct my actions but not order me to do things. Only I could order the military personnel in the performance of their duties. The military made every voyage /trip whatever for the years we were assigned, the civilians came and went - sometimes monthly, sometimes longer.
As a USNS we were bound by USCG rules.

For a recreational vessel you can call me Person in Charge, Skipper, Admiral, Captain or just Chuck. I'm not licensed nor do I intend to ever be. I sail for pleasure not business.

I consider myself responsible for the safe operation of the boat and it's crew and quests, and that's not a transferable responsibility. If you ignore my directions regarding safety and operation of the boat then you become neither crew nor guest and are either a swimmer or dropped off at the nearest land fall.
I know I'm not always right and welcome discussion and input on all things sailing - but not when that conversation imperils the boat or crew (proper time and place).

Unfortunately 'get topless' doesn't have any logical safety or operational bearing. Nor does 'make me a sandwich' or 'refill my drink'.
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  #36  
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Re: Limits of Captains authority

I remember a day when I was about 16 and working on a charter fishing boat with a group of about 45 mostly men from Phily. There was a pool involved regarding the biggest fish (about 100$) . Majority of them were drinking hard as it was a Friday night..

Well, the fishing was great and we had multiple on at one time, lines tangled, curses flying and then one guy pulls a knife and starts threatening me and or anyone else not to cut his line in order to deal with multiple tangles.

I pull out a gaff, warn the person to cease. that failing, I stick it in the guys shoulder and drag him to the upper deck where the Capt was able to zip tie the guys hands behind him and warn him not to move until we get to the dock.

Cops meet us at the dock and the guy spends at least 24 hrs in pokey and was charged (not exactly sure of the charge but it turned out we had the authority to do what we thought reasonable to ensure the safety of the other passengers).

Lessons learned:
Do not drink too much on a party boat and threaten anyone
Get your tetanus shot at regular intervals..
Sail safe!
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  #37  
Old 08-16-2013
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Re: Limits of Captains authority

Steel-
"Traditionally most ships went to sea for extended periods, away from any legal jurisdiction."
That's a new one on me. Traditionally, back to the dawn of history, every vessel is still under the legal jurisdiction of whatever sovereign ruled its home port and master. The only vessels not under the legal jurisdiction of someone else, would have been pirates. Pretty much by definition.

Chuckles-
I'd bet the "neither fish nor fowl" role of the USNS, coupled with our recent "state of emergency but not state of war" must have enhanced the confusion of everyone, no?

SailRacer-
The guy probably was charged with ADW, assault with a deadly weapon, for making a threat with a knife. Pennsylvania, like most of the old Colonies, would recognize a *commercial*licensed* captain as having rather different authority compared to the "civilian" skipper in the transpac. But even then, most states would also allow for a "citizen's arrest" and in fact there are also militia laws that are largely ignored, which might even impose a duty to act and arrest. (Which is how militia laws started, under the British Crown, to ensure local law enforcement against violent crimes.)

Last edited by hellosailor; 08-16-2013 at 12:44 PM.
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Re: Limits of Captains authority

USNS Apache?

Do you now Tim Lockwood? He is my oldest friend, I have known him since I was 3 years old.


Quote:
Originally Posted by chucklesR View Post
On the USNS Apache (my last sea going duty assignment) I was the CPOIC - Chief Petty Officer in Charge, as senior military on the ships assigned crew I was also the Officer in Charge.
If another group of military came aboard I was still the OIC regardless of rank or senority of the visitors (it happened all the time, especially SEAL and Mine warfare types. Some junior officers didn't get it and had to be shown the regulations and orders).

The ship was actually run by a civilian ships master, 1st mate and 14 other civilian crew. The officers of that crew down to the third mate could direct my actions but not order me to do things. Only I could order the military personnel in the performance of their duties. The military made every voyage /trip whatever for the years we were assigned, the civilians came and went - sometimes monthly, sometimes longer.
As a USNS we were bound by USCG rules.

For a recreational vessel you can call me Person in Charge, Skipper, Admiral, Captain or just Chuck. I'm not licensed nor do I intend to ever be. I sail for pleasure not business.

I consider myself responsible for the safe operation of the boat and it's crew and quests, and that's not a transferable responsibility. If you ignore my directions regarding safety and operation of the boat then you become neither crew nor guest and are either a swimmer or dropped off at the nearest land fall.
I know I'm not always right and welcome discussion and input on all things sailing - but not when that conversation imperils the boat or crew (proper time and place).

Unfortunately 'get topless' doesn't have any logical safety or operational bearing. Nor does 'make me a sandwich' or 'refill my drink'.
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  #39  
Old 08-16-2013
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Re: Limits of Captains authority

HS, Yam

I retired in 2000, was on the Apache in 97, don't know him and didn't deal with the current bogus war environment.
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  #40  
Old 08-16-2013
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Re: Limits of Captains authority

He was Master of the Apache.
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