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Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Seamanship & Navigation
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  #11  
Old 09-02-2013
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Re: Planning a trip up the East River, Timing?

If you start up the East River when it is dead low at the Battery you will be working against the current all the way to Hells Gate. If you wait until 3 hours after low water at the Battery to start up the river you will have the current with you all the way up to Hells Gate. If you wait as long as 4 hours after low water at the Battery you still have 4 hours to make it through Hells Gate with a strong current pushing you all the way.

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Old 09-02-2013
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Re: Planning a trip up the East River, Timing?

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Originally Posted by downeast450 View Post
If you start up the East River when it is dead low at the Battery you will be working against the current all the way to Hells Gate. If you wait until 3 hours after low water at the Battery to start up the river you will have the current with you all the way up to Hells Gate. If you wait as long as 4 hours after low water at the Battery you still have 4 hours to make it through Hells Gate with a strong current pushing you all the way.

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That has not been my experience. I have done this route more than once to say the least. Do not for get about the issue of the Tide Gate.
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Re: Planning a trip up the East River, Timing?

Yamsailor,

Please elaborate on the Tide Gate. I only have my experience to relate to.

Thanks,

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Old 09-02-2013
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Re: Planning a trip up the East River, Timing?

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Originally Posted by downeast450 View Post
Yamsailor,

Please elaborate on the Tide Gate. I only have my experience to relate to.

Thanks,

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A colleague of mine has written a good article on the Tide Gate. See the enclosed linked:


http://www.oceanworxonline.com/index...dal%20Gate.pdf
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Re: Planning a trip up the East River, Timing?

Yamsailor,

Thanks for that post.

No doubt that conditions at the N.Y. Battery reflect the propositions in this paper. My experience in the Hudson is that the river's current holds back the flood for a couple of hours. You can see it "walking" up the mouth of the river. Its effects at the mouth of the East River are challenging as they can play against boat wakes creating a very confused, turbulent sea the later into the flood they are encountered. It is particularly important when you make the trip in a canoe as we did last week.

When I plot the current speeds in the East River from low water at the Battery to high, there is a head on current as close as the Brooklyn Bridge at low water at the Battery. As time after low water at the Battery progresses the upstream current increases and reaches a peak around 5 hours after low water. If you enter at The Battery (we paddled down from Englewood, N.J. that morning and rounded the Battery) 5 hours after low water you have about 3 hours to make it to Hell gate before things get messy there. That should be plenty of time with the very strong upstream current you enjoy at that time. We were paddling a canoe, rounded the Battery 5 hours after low water, had to spend time dealing with wakes and chop and made it past Mill Rock through Hell Gate into the Harlem River in about 90 minutes. We stayed on the Manhattan side of Roosevelt Island going up. Other than the confused seas confronted in a canoe I did not see any reason for starting into the East River sooner than 4 hours after ebb. In our Islander the wakes would not be a consideration and the strong upstream current would be welcome. "Local" ship traffic was certainly taking advantage of the timing we used.

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Re: Planning a trip up the East River, Timing?

There are two ( perhaps 3 ) calculations that people perform for the passage up or down the east river. 1 is to determine the best time to make the passage and achieve a favorable current in your direction of travel for the entire 15 mile transit. The general rule of thumb to ride the flood going north is to arrive at the battery 2 hours after low tide at the battery. Can you leave at an hour and 3/4 ...sure. You can also arrive 4 hours later and hold a fair current. These times are all best estimates.

The other calculation is to arrive at the gate at slack. They are not the same timings. If you want to arrive at the gate at slack, you should leave the battery approximately 45 minutes after low tide. One possible concern here ( beside a slower passage) is that the tugs and barges that ply the river are also likely to want to hit the gate on either side of slack. So you are more likely to find yourself in the area of the gate with commercial traffic.

Leaving the battery at low tide, is not going to be the fastest passage. And if it takes you an hour or so to get to Hell Gate from the battery. (arriving 1 hour after low tide at the battery) You'll hit a good 2 knot current against you.

The 3rd consideration is your final desitination. If you want to achieve a fair current all the way through the narrows going south You'd want to hit the ebb as early as possible.

If you wanted to achieve a fair current going east in the LI sound you might want to hit the gate around slack, to be able to carry a fair current east in the sound

I'm generally less concerned with an opposing current in the sound as I am carrying a fair current through the narrows. There's also more room above the gate to avoid large traffic.

I'm not convinced that leaving the battery at low tide fits into either strategy.. ( fast passage or slack at the gate)
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Old 09-03-2013
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Re: Planning a trip up the East River, Timing?

Guys let's take an example.

On 9/15/2013, Slack at the Brooklyn Bridge is at 00:18, Max Flood is at 03:50;

On 9/15/2013, Max Flood in Hell Gate is at 05:30 with Slack (at High) being at 07:57.

The direction of flood current at Hells Gate is 050 Degrees True.

Are you telling me if you leave the Battery at 00:00 on 9/15/2013, you will get a foul (i.e. Ebb) current before you exit into Long Island Sound? With a flood current it takes at most 2.5 hours to transit from the Battery to the entrance of LIS.
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Re: Planning a trip up the East River, Timing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yamsailor View Post
I have always used the rule of being at the battery at Dead Low. This usually gives me the max push through the gate.
Guys let's take an example.

On 9/15/2013, Slack at the Brooklyn Bridge is at 00:18, Max Flood is at 03:50;

On 9/15/2013, Max Flood in Hell Gate is at 05:30 with Slack (at High) being at 07:57.

Are you telling me if you leave the Battery at 00:00 on 9/15/2013, you will get a foul (i.e. Ebb) current before you exit into Long Island Sound? With a flood current it takes at most 2.5 hours to transit from the Battery to the entrance of LIS.
1 Day Ago 12:41 PM


Yam, I think we're talking apples and oranges.

Using your example Low Tide at the battery on 9/14 ocurs @ 11:12 p.m.

The timing that you are proposing above ( leaving the battery 45 minutes after low tide) will put you in the vicinity of the gate at slack ( low) See my earlier post.

Your 1st post, said that leaving the battery at dead low, ( I assumed you meant tide) gives one the max push through the gate. It doesn't.

The max push through the gate.. at the gate.. occurs between 4 and 5 hours after low tide at the battery.

The timing you are proposing puts you in the gate arounds slack.

If you left the battery at " dead low" you'd actually buck some current as you proceed up river.

Two different scenarios.. There are reasons to want to hit it at slack, but if you want a nice push up the river..the general rule of thumb ( 2 hours after low tide ) works well. But you can arrive 3 hours later, 4 hours later..and still get a nice ride. Or you can do as you're suggesting leave 45 minutes after low and hit the gate at slack.

Leaving exactly at low...fits into neither strategy.

It seems that the timing you use is designed around putting you at the gate at slack. That's fine, but it's not the " Max Push" . That's all I'm saying.

If we had big power boats..we wouldn't sweat these details.. we could sleep till noon leave when we want.. ;-)
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Last edited by Tempest; 09-03-2013 at 05:55 PM.
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Re: Planning a trip up the East River, Timing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest View Post
Guys let's take an example.

On 9/15/2013, Slack at the Brooklyn Bridge is at 00:18, Max Flood is at 03:50;

On 9/15/2013, Max Flood in Hell Gate is at 05:30 with Slack (at High) being at 07:57.

Are you telling me if you leave the Battery at 00:00 on 9/15/2013, you will get a foul (i.e. Ebb) current before you exit into Long Island Sound? With a flood current it takes at most 2.5 hours to transit from the Battery to the entrance of LIS.
1 Day Ago 12:41 PM


Yam, I think we're talking apples and oranges.

Using your example Low Tide at the battery on 9/14 ocurs @ 11:12 p.m.

The timing that you are proposing above ( leaving the battery 45 minutes after low tide) will put you in the vicinity of the gate at slack ( low) See my earlier post.

Your 1st post, said that leaving the battery at dead low, ( I assumed you meant tide) gives one the max push through the gate. It doesn't.

The max push through the gate.. at the gate.. occurs between 4 and 5 hours after low tide at the battery.

The timing you are proposing puts you in the gate arounds slack.

If you left the battery at " dead low" you'd actually buck some current as you proceed up river.

Two different scenarios.. There are reasons to want to hit it at slack, but if you want a nice push up the river..the general rule of thumb ( 2 hours after low tide ) works well. But you can arrive 3 hours later, 4 hours later..and still get a nice ride. Or you can do as you're suggesting leave 45 minutes after low and hit the gate at slack.

Leaving exactly at low...fits into neither strategy.

It seems that the timing you use is designed around putting you at the gate at slack. That's fine, but it's not the " Max Push" . That's all I'm saying.

If we had big power boats..we wouldn't sweat these details.. we could sleep till noon leave when we want.. ;-)

I would look at the Tidal Current Tables as one is looking at the horizontal movement of water. So if you hit the Battery at 11:15, effectively it will not make a big difference. The Tidal Current Tables are what is more important.
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Re: Planning a trip up the East River, Timing?

Yam... let's look at tidal currents. in order to arrive the battery at dead low tide..from any point south...one would have to buck a 2 knot current coming down through the narrows and the hudson, If one simply waited an hour two they could ride the horizontal flow of water up through the narrows and all the way up the east river.
I'd rather do 7 knots than 3..
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