SailNet Community banner
  • SailNet is a forum community dedicated to Sailing enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about sailing, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, repairs, reviews, maintenance, and more!

Planning a trip up the East River, Timing?

8K views 28 replies 6 participants last post by  downeast450 
#1 ·
We are planning to transit up the East River past Hells Gate. Studying tide tables and current charts it looks like the following tide window will be good most of the time.

Please tell me if this is a good rule of thumb.

Round the Battery 2 to 4 hours after low tide there. Make 4 hours the limit to avoid the worst tidal currents at the entrance of the East River.

Make it to Hells Gate in no more than 4 hours.

IE: Low tied at the Battery at 6:00 am Be past the Battery by 10:00 am. A bit earlier would be better. Make Hells Gate no later than 2:00 pm.

Down
 
#2 ·
Down, Yes, 2 hours after low tide at the battery is the general rule of thumb. However, as you've ascertained you can enter 4 hours later and still catch a favorable current. I think you can enter even a little later than that.

Take a look at Eldridge and the currents in New York harbor beginning on page 128 of this years book.

It's a 15 mile trip. With the 7 or 8 kn. over ground that you could acheive going with the full flow the whole trip only takes about 2 hours. ( to the throgs neck ).

So if you enter with the flow @ 10 am...should be at the throgs neck by noon. I usually plan for a 2 hour transit.
 
#5 ·
Tempest,

Thanks, that is what I meant. We got a close up view of the confused seas rounding the Battery last Sunday. We were an hour late, 5 hours after low water. The wind was not an issue. It was blowing up the ER. Boat wakes against the surging tide created quite a messy situation. The sweep along the Manhattan side is very powerful then. I am hoping the tide against the wakes is not as busy if we make the 3 hour limit next time.

Down
 
#6 ·
This is from a prior SailNet thread on this. I saved it for future use but can't vouch for it personally -- just expect I will use it in the future:

Use Eldrige Tide Tables to plan to cross Hell Gate at SLACK WATER.
Your best bet is to plan the trip so as to keep moving, if your ahead of scedule run slower rather than just stopping. As a tug guy I want any pleasure craft to be predictable, I am relying on it really, which means not going in circles in confined areas. If you must stop for a bit, going east through the river I would wait well north of the battery. From there south there is just too much current as well as tug, ferry, and dinner boat traffic to be tacking or motoring around with no purpose. People do, but you asked.

"Coming the other way there is plenty of room anywhere east of the 'Brothers', but you need to be aware of the little stuff, sand scows etc. coming off moorings, coming and going from Flushing Bay, and the other little creeks. Most traffic is passing trough. Listen to channel 13!! Most tug guys dont really want to talk to you, but they probably will. Your best bet is to listen so you know what is happening around you. If you want to talk make your life easier by making your transmissions short, and knowing the difference between one whistle and two both meeting and overtaking. Plenty of recreational passes through everyday. Its really not a huge deal, but if you do decide to hit slack water in all likelyhood you will encounter a greater number of commercial vessels. Another radio hint, listen to vessel traffic, the east river is channel 12, anything moving through the East River checks in at the Throgsneck or Brooklyn Bridge, and each time somebody checks in they get a rundown of all the traffic and their locations. It would be kind of like listening in on a weather net. Channel 12 is also anchorage control and the Kills south of the AK Railroad Bridge so dont get you landmarks confused.
Todd is right most of the commercial traffic especially the big stuff tries to hit slack water or within 30 minutes to an hour either side of it. Thats not to say there wont be traffic at all stages of the tide, but it is not uncommon to have multiple units on both sides of the gates stacked up waiting on each other to get through. A week ago I was fourth in line on my side coming around N. Brother Island. You need the current tables for slack water, the tide tables wont help you here. I would agree that if your boat can manage it ride the flood through planing to be at least to Rikers Island an hour before Slack at the gate, beware of the current from pier 17 through the Williamsburgh bridge as they are very strong here and you will not want to be against them.
Going North start your trip at the Battery 2 hours after the low. Going south start your trip from Throgs Neck 2 hours after high at the Battery.
Wear PFD's, stay in the center, have a sharp lookout for barge traffic coming around corners. Have your VHF on Ch13 and an air horn handy. Know what one blast means, as distinct from 2. Have a camera ready at all times for magnificant views, and 2 days after a heavy rain,a boat hook ready, if you see any bodies or other debris that may foul your passageway.
The Coasties will not let you get in to much trouble--stay far away from the UN."
- author unknown
 
#7 · (Edited)
We had good advice last Sunday to get around the Battery by 10:00 am with low water there at 6:00 am. We were an hour late and I suspect the tides effect at that stage was doubled what it would have been between 9 and 10. It is quite a funnel coming in from the Ambrose Channel. The Hudson's current keeps things at bay for a while but when it is overcome by the tide it is "busy"!

We were paddling our 18' Sawyer Charger canoe with a cover. It was a white water run with big boat wakes working against the tide. The sweep up the East River under the Brooklyn Bridge was impressive.

We had no difficulty staying out of the way of the boat traffic. It took close attention and we watched and waited for ferries to dock or depart. The prop wash from The Staten Island Ferry was exciting! We did have to take on the bigger, steeper wakes head on and relied on our cover to keep from taking water over the bow when we punched into some.

We will not be late the next time. Perhaps an hour early. It was an interesting trip and an intimate look at the East River. In our Islander it will be a piece of cake. We made Hells Gate in 90 minutes after rounding the Battery. There were a couple of small ships headed up, too. The Harlem River was a "mill pond" except for an occasional wake. A police boat that was chasing some drunks on jet skis gave us little surprise. We heard the siren but thought it was on land as we were passing under two close bridges. He went by quite fast and from behind. No problems, just a surprise. Woosh! We had the current with us all the way through Spuyten Duyvil to the Hudson. Straight across to our start at Englewood Cliffs. It was a beautiful day that started at sunrise. My 67th birthday celebration.

Down
 
#8 ·
Downeast

Check out this site Deepzoom.com you can go to any date that you want and see what the tide/current is going to be doing.
Having done the East river several times in a 36' person and my own 33 Newport I have always found it best to pay attention to the current and plan your trip to ride the ebb/flood up or down. It will only be rough if you have an opposing wind.
Enjoy your trip. IMHO that is the only way to see NYC - from the deck of your sailboat.

Peter
 
#18 · (Edited)
Guys let's take an example.

On 9/15/2013, Slack at the Brooklyn Bridge is at 00:18, Max Flood is at 03:50;

On 9/15/2013, Max Flood in Hell Gate is at 05:30 with Slack (at High) being at 07:57.

Are you telling me if you leave the Battery at 00:00 on 9/15/2013, you will get a foul (i.e. Ebb) current before you exit into Long Island Sound? With a flood current it takes at most 2.5 hours to transit from the Battery to the entrance of LIS.
1 Day Ago 12:41 PM

Yam, I think we're talking apples and oranges.

Using your example Low Tide at the battery on 9/14 ocurs @ 11:12 p.m.

The timing that you are proposing above ( leaving the battery 45 minutes after low tide) will put you in the vicinity of the gate at slack ( low) See my earlier post.

Your 1st post, said that leaving the battery at dead low, ( I assumed you meant tide) gives one the max push through the gate. It doesn't.

The max push through the gate.. at the gate.. occurs between 4 and 5 hours after low tide at the battery.

The timing you are proposing puts you in the gate arounds slack.

If you left the battery at " dead low" you'd actually buck some current as you proceed up river.

Two different scenarios.. There are reasons to want to hit it at slack, but if you want a nice push up the river..the general rule of thumb ( 2 hours after low tide ) works well. But you can arrive 3 hours later, 4 hours later..and still get a nice ride. Or you can do as you're suggesting leave 45 minutes after low and hit the gate at slack.

Leaving exactly at low...fits into neither strategy.

It seems that the timing you use is designed around putting you at the gate at slack. That's fine, but it's not the " Max Push" . That's all I'm saying.

If we had big power boats..we wouldn't sweat these details.. we could sleep till noon leave when we want.. ;-)
 
#11 · (Edited)
If you start up the East River when it is dead low at the Battery you will be working against the current all the way to Hells Gate. If you wait until 3 hours after low water at the Battery to start up the river you will have the current with you all the way up to Hells Gate. If you wait as long as 4 hours after low water at the Battery you still have 4 hours to make it through Hells Gate with a strong current pushing you all the way.

Down
 
#15 · (Edited)
Yamsailor,

Thanks for that post.

No doubt that conditions at the N.Y. Battery reflect the propositions in this paper. My experience in the Hudson is that the river's current holds back the flood for a couple of hours. You can see it "walking" up the mouth of the river. Its effects at the mouth of the East River are challenging as they can play against boat wakes creating a very confused, turbulent sea the later into the flood they are encountered. It is particularly important when you make the trip in a canoe as we did last week.

When I plot the current speeds in the East River from low water at the Battery to high, there is a head on current as close as the Brooklyn Bridge at low water at the Battery. As time after low water at the Battery progresses the upstream current increases and reaches a peak around 5 hours after low water. If you enter at The Battery (we paddled down from Englewood, N.J. that morning and rounded the Battery) 5 hours after low water you have about 3 hours to make it to Hell gate before things get messy there. That should be plenty of time with the very strong upstream current you enjoy at that time. We were paddling a canoe, rounded the Battery 5 hours after low water, had to spend time dealing with wakes and chop and made it past Mill Rock through Hell Gate into the Harlem River in about 90 minutes. We stayed on the Manhattan side of Roosevelt Island going up. Other than the confused seas confronted in a canoe I did not see any reason for starting into the East River sooner than 4 hours after ebb. In our Islander the wakes would not be a consideration and the strong upstream current would be welcome. "Local" ship traffic was certainly taking advantage of the timing we used.

Down
 
#16 · (Edited)
There are two ( perhaps 3 ) calculations that people perform for the passage up or down the east river. 1 is to determine the best time to make the passage and achieve a favorable current in your direction of travel for the entire 15 mile transit. The general rule of thumb to ride the flood going north is to arrive at the battery 2 hours after low tide at the battery. Can you leave at an hour and 3/4 ...sure. You can also arrive 4 hours later and hold a fair current. These times are all best estimates.

The other calculation is to arrive at the gate at slack. They are not the same timings. If you want to arrive at the gate at slack, you should leave the battery approximately 45 minutes after low tide. One possible concern here ( beside a slower passage) is that the tugs and barges that ply the river are also likely to want to hit the gate on either side of slack. So you are more likely to find yourself in the area of the gate with commercial traffic.

Leaving the battery at low tide, is not going to be the fastest passage. And if it takes you an hour or so to get to Hell Gate from the battery. (arriving 1 hour after low tide at the battery) You'll hit a good 2 knot current against you.

The 3rd consideration is your final desitination. If you want to achieve a fair current all the way through the narrows going south You'd want to hit the ebb as early as possible.

If you wanted to achieve a fair current going east in the LI sound you might want to hit the gate around slack, to be able to carry a fair current east in the sound

I'm generally less concerned with an opposing current in the sound as I am carrying a fair current through the narrows. There's also more room above the gate to avoid large traffic.

I'm not convinced that leaving the battery at low tide fits into either strategy.. ( fast passage or slack at the gate)
 
#17 · (Edited)
Guys let's take an example.

On 9/15/2013, Slack at the Brooklyn Bridge is at 00:18, Max Flood is at 03:50;

On 9/15/2013, Max Flood in Hell Gate is at 05:30 with Slack (at High) being at 07:57.

The direction of flood current at Hells Gate is 050 Degrees True.

Are you telling me if you leave the Battery at 00:00 on 9/15/2013, you will get a foul (i.e. Ebb) current before you exit into Long Island Sound? With a flood current it takes at most 2.5 hours to transit from the Battery to the entrance of LIS.
 
#20 ·
Yam... let's look at tidal currents. in order to arrive the battery at dead low tide..from any point south...one would have to buck a 2 knot current coming down through the narrows and the hudson, If one simply waited an hour two they could ride the horizontal flow of water up through the narrows and all the way up the east river.
I'd rather do 7 knots than 3..
 
#24 ·
We took the trek up the east river last Monday and returned south yesterday
following the rules for fair current posted here: Navigating the East River - Choosing the Right Time (Fair Current or Slack Water?) to Make the Passage

These rules appear consistent with the advice given here.

Our northbound track can be viewed in Google earth here:
http://www.eguy.org/boat/ryc2tng.kml
Our southbound track can be viewed in Google earth here:
http://www.eguy.org/boat/tng2ryc.kml

Northbound, we left about 30 minutes before the designated auspicious time and it took 2 hours to transit north to the Throgs Neck Bridge.
The reverse path to the Battery was about 1:45 in duration and the GPS read 10.5 kts through Hell Gate.

/ed

Please let me know if anyone finds the log useful ( or amusing).
 
#28 ·
I've done the trek to the upper harbor twice so far this summer and took the inside route behind Hoffman Island four times. Only on this last trip southbound did I find the water shallower than expected: the depth gauge read about 9 feet so I diverted a bit to the east and was happy for the rest of the trip. ( I only draw 4' and change, but just assumed I was closer to shore than I planned to be. )

/ed
 
#29 · (Edited)
Thanks to everyone for a helpful discussion. My original post was prompted by the Admiral's and my canoe paddle around Manhattan on August 25th. We came down the Hudson and rounded the Battery 5 hours after low tide there (@11:00 am). We found the tide was strong. We had intended to be a couple of hours earlier but missed our planned window. The tides force added to the turbulence we dealt with at that time in the tide cycle I am sure. It did give us a strong boost as we paddled to Hell Gate (90 minutes). Since our trip did not include coming up from New Jersey and did not continue out to Long Island Sound we planned our transit to give us favorable current up the Harlem River back to the Hudson. That is what we got. I wanted to get a review of this timing by asking for shared experience. I did. I got it and I am appreciative. On our next trip up the East River will pass the Battery a couple of hours earlier in the tide cycle (three hours after low tide there).

Another consideration we have, in our canoe, is traffic. Getting to the Battery near noon on Sunday wasn't as busy as it would have been on a weekday but our next trip will be scheduled for a favorable tide window that occurs early in the day on a Sunday. Since we have seen it in August, perhaps a "window" in April or November will be the plan. We have so much flexibility for scheduling this transit our next "ride" will be a bit "quieter". We will not schedule the trip when there is a counter current to deal with.

What a spectacular way to experience Manhattan!

Thanks again,

Down
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top