Recreational Sailboat vs. Tugboat with Barge: Who Has the Right of Way? - See more at - Page 3 - SailNet Community
Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.

 107Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #21 of 109 Old 11-10-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 713
Thanks: 3
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 11
 
Re: Recreational Sailboat vs. Tugboat with Barge: Who Has the Right of Way? - See mor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faster View Post
Next time I'll contact Traffic first.. I think hailing "Seaspan Comox" is more effective than "Tug towing barges in Georgia Strait eastbound".

this is why AIS is so incredibly valuable, and it takes the middleman out.
Faster likes this.
xymotic is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #22 of 109 Old 11-10-2013
Senior Member
 
dabnis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Truckee, CA
Posts: 8,676
Thanks: 2
Thanked 116 Times in 114 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
Re: Recreational Sailboat vs. Tugboat with Barge: Who Has the Right of Way? - See mor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumble View Post
I would also add that recreational boaters need to be aware of and stay clear of any local Traffic Separation Schemes. Since San Francisco has a large one, it probably didn't matter much to the article. Commercial vessels even if they can navigate outside a scheme can be prohibited from exiting, much like if they were in a narrow channel surrounded by shallow water.

They are still the give way vessel, however a vessel transiting across a TSS always gives way.
Some years ago my Dad and I had a commercial salmon troller out of San Francisco. We fished mostly from the lightship to the Farallon Islands to Point Reyes. Lots of commercial traffic coming & going in the separation areas. I was always amazed at how fast they closed on us. Just a few minutes after first seeing them, busy with lines, etc, look up, and they were RIGHT there, scary.

Both in and out of the Bay, I can't remember seeing one make any attempt at altering course or speed. As others have mentioned, Stay out of their way, regardless of what the rules say.

Paul T

Last edited by dabnis; 11-10-2013 at 12:30 PM.
dabnis is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #23 of 109 Old 11-11-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 2,008
Thanks: 8
Thanked 38 Times in 35 Posts
Rep Power: 11
 
Re: Recreational Sailboat vs. Tugboat with Barge: Who Has the Right of Way? - See mor

Well-stated article and comments, both under the article, and here. Note how unanimous the "maybe you have right of way technically but please don't push your luck, give way early and live to sail another day" opinion is.

The best advice amongst all the really good advice was imho, "why don't you just talk on the radio?" I guarantee you that tug listening Ch 16, or the local contact channel, or probably both.
So if you cross clear in front of him but then have to tack back across (which situation please try to avoid if at all possible), please please let him/her know! the worst thing for the tug driver is not knowing what you're going to do next. And if he's towing astern on a wire, he slows or turns to avoid you at risk of getting run over by his barge. And when pushing ahead he may have a large blind spot ahead of his barge.
nolatom is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #24 of 109 Old 11-11-2013
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 58
Thanks: 3
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 2
 
Re: Recreational Sailboat vs. Tugboat with Barge: Who Has the Right of Way? - See mor

A couple of things. I don't have a lot of sailing experience, but it's almost all in the Hudson, where passing within 100 feet of a cruise ship or barge is the norm.
1) The COLREGS only *really* matter after a collision. Hopefully your insurance agent or next of kin can collect from the at-fault vessel. Before the collision, they are a guide for setting expectations on how to avoid a collision. I feel that as a sailboat skipper, you should be getting out of the way or getting on the radio to explain why you can't.
2) At least in the Hudson, you probably won't get a response on 16. If you don't, try 13, which is much more closely monitored by commercial traffic.
jeremiahblatz is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #25 of 109 Old 11-11-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 713
Thanks: 3
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 11
 
Re: Recreational Sailboat vs. Tugboat with Barge: Who Has the Right of Way? - See mor

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremiahblatz View Post
A couple of things. I don't have a lot of sailing experience, but it's almost all in the Hudson, where passing within 100 feet of a cruise ship or barge is the norm.
1) The COLREGS only *really* matter after a collision. Hopefully your insurance agent or next of kin can collect from the at-fault vessel. Before the collision, they are a guide for setting expectations on how to avoid a collision. I feel that as a sailboat skipper, you should be getting out of the way or getting on the radio to explain why you can't.
2) At least in the Hudson, you probably won't get a response on 16. If you don't, try 13, which is much more closely monitored by commercial traffic.
I think I get what you are saying so maybe it's nit-picky of me but I think the colregs are pretty important before a collision. You should have a reasonable expectation of what the other guy should do, so that you can make the best decisions possible. I'm not saying assume they will do the right thing or anything, but you also should know enough not to turn left when faced with a head on collision.
davidpm likes this.
xymotic is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #26 of 109 Old 11-11-2013
tdw
Super Fuzzy Moderator
 
tdw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 16,610
Thanks: 15
Thanked 106 Times in 99 Posts
Rep Power: 10
     
Re: Recreational Sailboat vs. Tugboat with Barge: Who Has the Right of Way? - See mor

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
The funniest story was last year where at night a big cruising ship seemed to stay on a collision course for a long time. I did not really understand their course so I call them. It turned out that it was a big cruising ship and they were almost making no way, killing time to arrive at their destination in the morning. That was what was confusing me, I assumed the boat was moving at a cruising speed. Paulo

I'm very much on the side of using a bit of common sense. Sometimes the attitude of sailing boat skippers is akin to a small terrier that decides to take on a Rottwieler. Moral superiority is one thing, being smug as you are ingested by a monster is another.

Paulo, we had a similar experience when we were heading out on Sunday morning. It was pre dawn and poor (rain not fog) visibility. We'd seen a pilot boat head out to sea and could also see the lights of what was obviously a liner about to enter Sydney Harbour. The oddity was that while on a direct collision course they seemed to be closing at very low speed. Finally one of us had a dhoh moment and we remembered that cruise ships never enter our port in the dark and that he was simply hanging off until daybreak.

Couple of years back we were heading into Newcastle (nth of Sydney) and could see a bulk carrier off in the distance but moving at a reasonable clip. I couldn't raise the ship so we radioed Newcastle Port Authority and they confirmed that the ship was about to enter the port. We decided to sit back and let her go through ahead of us.

Now wasn't that good of me ?
PCP and davidpm like this.

Andrew B

“Life is a trick, and you get one chance to learn it.”
― Terry Pratchett, Nation

Malo 39 Classic
tdw is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #27 of 109 Old 11-11-2013
PCP
Senior Member
 
PCP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,214
Thanks: 21
Thanked 104 Times in 87 Posts
Rep Power: 11
 
Re: Recreational Sailboat vs. Tugboat with Barge: Who Has the Right of Way? - See mor

It seems that this movie fits well here. The British at their best

tdw, T37Chef and capecodda like this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
PCP is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #28 of 109 Old 11-11-2013
Senior Member
 
Bradhamlet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Simi Valley CA
Posts: 169
Thanks: 2
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 13
 
Re: Recreational Sailboat vs. Tugboat with Barge: Who Has the Right of Way? - See mor

I was struck by a barge in tow, we were talking to the coast guard on the VHF at the time of the collision. Don't be so sure the tug is listing to the VHF/16. We had lost our steering and were discussing our next course of action when we notice this small boat(tug) being followed by a large department store(barge). We were yelling to the barge to change course right up until he struck a glancing blow to our bow before he came on the VHF and demanded to know which direction we would be going. Had he been listening to the VHF he would have know our trouble. Any way just my .02 worth.

Brad
Lancer 36
davidpm likes this.
Bradhamlet is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #29 of 109 Old 11-11-2013
Just another Moderator
 
Faster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Westminster, BC
Posts: 16,534
Thanks: 104
Thanked 314 Times in 301 Posts
Rep Power: 10
     
Re: Recreational Sailboat vs. Tugboat with Barge: Who Has the Right of Way? - See mor

Yes.. we've had little to no success hailing a tug on 16, esp if we didn't know it's name. The Vessel Traffic services are on 12 around here, I've taken to using that, but the incident described was the first time we'd had success trying to 'communicate' either our intentions or what the tug intended to do...

Ron

1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
Capt G E Ericson (from "The Cruel Sea" by Nicholas Monsarrat)
Faster is online now  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #30 of 109 Old 11-11-2013 Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
gamayun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 561
Thanks: 17
Thanked 28 Times in 28 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
Re: Recreational Sailboat vs. Tugboat with Barge: Who Has the Right of Way? - See mor

Quote:
Originally Posted by dabnis View Post

In most harbors that I am familiar with there is little to no room for commercial traffic to "Maneuver". For liability purposes, they might give you 5 blasts on the whistle/horn right before they run them down.
A few weeks ago in San Francisco Bay near the Port of Oakland, a pilot boat with a container ship kept blasting his horn over and over. There were lots of sailboats around, but apparently one was giving him real fits. About 10 minutes later he was on the radio calling CG requesting that they inform the skipper about the need to get out of the way. Though I'm sure the pilots would enjoy running over some of these boats, it's just too easy pickings. The real challenge is to NOT run us down.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

s/v Kynntana
Freedom 38

Last edited by Faster; 11-12-2013 at 12:50 AM. Reason: fixed quote
gamayun is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sailboat Struck, Sunk By Tugboat Near Golden Gate Bridge - CBS Local NewsReader News Feeds 0 01-30-2013 12:40 PM
Shipping canal near Baltimore shuts down after tugboat, sailboat ... - San Diego Union Tribune NewsReader News Feeds 0 05-19-2007 09:15 PM
Tugboat, sailboat collide, shut shortcut - Asbury Park Press NewsReader News Feeds 0 05-19-2007 08:15 PM
Tugboat, sailboat collide, shut shortcut - Asbury Park Press NewsReader News Feeds 0 05-15-2007 05:15 AM
Shipping canal near Baltimore shuts down after tugboat, sailboat ... - San Diego Union Tribune NewsReader News Feeds 0 05-14-2007 07:15 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome