Recreational Sailboat vs. Tugboat with Barge: Who Has the Right of Way? - See more at - Page 5 - SailNet Community
Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.

 107Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #41 of 109 Old 12-03-2013
Senior Member
 
pdqaltair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Posts: 2,516
Thanks: 1
Thanked 49 Times in 49 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
Re: Recreational Sailboat vs. Tugboat with Barge: Who Has the Right of Way? - See mor

A variation on the golden rule:

If you were at the helm of the tug, how would you feel about small boat trafic? Would it be your sincere wish that they would give you room? Would you fear, that in avoiding one boat you would confuse other trafic and increase risk of collision?

I sure apriciate it when kayaks stay out of the channel, though they are under no obligation to do so. The same manners apply here.

Additionally, the notion of big boat traffic dodging small boats (I might not be able to see what they are dodging) is disconcerting. I would rather big trafic stand-on, with the sole exception of small boats that have suddenly lost way (engines die). I would rather weave though through big traffic, knowing they will manuver in a predictable manner.
Faster and davidpm like this.

(when asked how he reached the starting holds on a difficult rock climbing problem that clearly favored taller climbers - he was perhaps 5'5")

"Well, I just climb up to them."

by Joe Brown, English rock climber




To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
pdqaltair is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #42 of 109 Old 12-04-2013
Senior Member
 
dabnis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Truckee, CA
Posts: 8,627
Thanks: 2
Thanked 116 Times in 114 Posts
Rep Power: 8
 
Re: Recreational Sailboat vs. Tugboat with Barge: Who Has the Right of Way? - See mor

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdqaltair View Post
A variation on the golden rule:

If you were at the helm of the tug, how would you feel about small boat trafic? Would it be your sincere wish that they would give you room? Would you fear, that in avoiding one boat you would confuse other trafic and increase risk of collision?

I sure apriciate it when kayaks stay out of the channel, though they are under no obligation to do so. The same manners apply here.

Additionally, the notion of big boat traffic dodging small boats (I might not be able to see what they are dodging) is disconcerting. I would rather big trafic stand-on, with the sole exception of small boats that have suddenly lost way (engines die). I would rather weave though through big traffic, knowing they will manuver in a predictable manner.
Agree, as mentioned earlier, if you do anything else, make sure your will is in order.

Although I don't remember anyone here saying they are/were going to challenge commercial traffic, just the existence of discussions about doing that surprises me?

Paul T
dabnis is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #43 of 109 Old 12-06-2013
Senior Member
 
paulk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: CT/ Long Island Sound
Posts: 2,603
Thanks: 4
Thanked 26 Times in 25 Posts
Rep Power: 16
 
Re: Recreational Sailboat vs. Tugboat with Barge: Who Has the Right of Way? - See mor

Often it's not so much a question of challenging commercial traffic as being seen and avoided by it. A J/105 was run over at night by a freighter in Long Island Sound a few years ago. If they had seen the sailboat, they would probably have steered around it. Better than a series of Coast Guard Inquiry sessions.
paulk is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #44 of 109 Old 12-07-2013
Senior Member
 
dabnis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Truckee, CA
Posts: 8,627
Thanks: 2
Thanked 116 Times in 114 Posts
Rep Power: 8
 
Re: Recreational Sailboat vs. Tugboat with Barge: Who Has the Right of Way? - See mor

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulk View Post
Often it's not so much a question of challenging commercial traffic as being seen and avoided by it. A J/105 was run over at night by a freighter in Long Island Sound a few years ago. If they had seen the sailboat, they would probably have steered around it. Better than a series of Coast Guard Inquiry sessions.
Don't know anything about Long Island Sound. Do know a little about San Francisco Bay and outside. Had two cases of nearly being run down, both our fault. Lost our wind in the Bay and waited too long to start the engine and running out the outside ship channel in the dark, becoming distracted for a moment and failed to keep a proper watch, looked back just in time to see a wall of lights closing fast, way too close.

First instance was in bright sunshine, second, we had a large triangular metal radar reflector mounted up high. In both cases the ships gave no indication they even saw us, no whistle, course or speed change. I would guess that if they saw you and could take any evasive action, they might try?

Tanker Owners Admit Evidence Indicates Ship Hit Fishing Boat - Los Angeles Times

Paul T

Forgot this one, it appears no one was watching?


Last edited by dabnis; 12-07-2013 at 10:47 AM.
dabnis is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #45 of 109 Old 12-07-2013
Senior Member
 
paulk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: CT/ Long Island Sound
Posts: 2,603
Thanks: 4
Thanked 26 Times in 25 Posts
Rep Power: 16
 
Re: Recreational Sailboat vs. Tugboat with Barge: Who Has the Right of Way? - See mor

It's obvious that the freighter above was sinking, and the quick-thinking skipper beached the boat to keep it from going down. You can see the steady stream of what must be a bilge pump outlet coming from the starboard side the whole video. We were almost run down on a clear, sunny day about 150 miles off Dingle, Ireland. by the Massachussetts Training Vessel Bay State. In the middle of the ocean, on a calm day, they bore down on us until we started the motor and executed an evasive maneuver. They still passed within 100 yards. No one on deck, no response on the radio. I remember especially because we could read the name on the starboard bow in letters that we cold tell were 2' high. If that is how they are training crews, that's why its a good idea to steer clear of them.
paulk is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #46 of 109 Old 12-07-2013
Senior Member
 
dabnis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Truckee, CA
Posts: 8,627
Thanks: 2
Thanked 116 Times in 114 Posts
Rep Power: 8
 
Re: Recreational Sailboat vs. Tugboat with Barge: Who Has the Right of Way? - See mor

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulk View Post
It's obvious that the freighter above was sinking, and the quick-thinking skipper beached the boat to keep it from going down. You can see the steady stream of what must be a bilge pump outlet coming from the starboard side the whole video. We were almost run down on a clear, sunny day about 150 miles off Dingle, Ireland. by the Massachussetts Training Vessel Bay State. In the middle of the ocean, on a calm day, they bore down on us until we started the motor and executed an evasive maneuver. They still passed within 100 yards. No one on deck, no response on the radio. I remember especially because we could read the name on the starboard bow in letters that we cold tell were 2' high. If that is how they are training crews, that's why its a good idea to steer clear of them.
"Sinking"? never thought of that. Your incident sounds similar to ours, not even a blink on the ship's part.

Paul T
dabnis is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #47 of 109 Old 12-07-2013
Reward for lost Kraken!
 
hellosailor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,439
Thanks: 5
Thanked 131 Times in 128 Posts
Rep Power: 11
   
Re: Recreational Sailboat vs. Tugboat with Barge: Who Has the Right of Way? - See mor

Debate among the crew on the sailboat? Isn't that like Wylie Coyote trying to have a rational debate with the anvil that's zooming down on his head?

Hey, if it hits you, you're gonna die. What's to debate about making that not happen?

Isn't there a saying about that in Texas, something like "better to be convicted by twelve than carried by six" ?
hellosailor is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #48 of 109 Old 12-07-2013
Senior Member
 
dabnis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Truckee, CA
Posts: 8,627
Thanks: 2
Thanked 116 Times in 114 Posts
Rep Power: 8
 
Re: Recreational Sailboat vs. Tugboat with Barge: Who Has the Right of Way? - See mor

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Debate among the crew on the sailboat? Isn't that like Wylie Coyote trying to have a rational debate with the anvil that's zooming down on his head?

Hey, if it hits you, you're gonna die. What's to debate about making that not happen?

Isn't there a saying about that in Texas, something like "better to be convicted by twelve than carried by six" ?
"Debate"? how true. My Dad had this thing about not turning the engine on, not sure why. We were on the lee side of Angel Island, in SF Bay, in the winter, lost what little wind we had. Big tanker pushing a BIG bow wave, coming straight at us, no whistle, nothing. Long story short, I pushed past my Dad and started the engine. Had the engine not started, my dad, my wife & two daughters, and I would have been killed, it was WAY too close.

Paul T
dabnis is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #49 of 109 Old 12-07-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: wherever
Posts: 5,279
Thanks: 8
Thanked 17 Times in 16 Posts
Rep Power: 11
     
Re: Recreational Sailboat vs. Tugboat with Barge: Who Has the Right of Way? - See mor

Up and down the US east coast, inside the ICW and outside in bigger water; we've had good comms with tows and other commercial shipping making passing easy. Not so with commercial fishing boats. They never answer on 16 or 13. And they change course as they fish and who knows how much they are dragging behind. But its not just us pleasure craft that have problems. Last week I left the radio on overnight and heard a tug/barge skipper hail a fishing trawler over and over with no reply. I could hear the desperation grow in his hails. He never heard from the trawler with at least 20 calls over a 15 min span. And it seems the fishing boats are exempt from using AIS. They are a problem.
xort is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #50 of 109 Old 12-08-2013
Senior Member
 
paulk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: CT/ Long Island Sound
Posts: 2,603
Thanks: 4
Thanked 26 Times in 25 Posts
Rep Power: 16
 
Re: Recreational Sailboat vs. Tugboat with Barge: Who Has the Right of Way? - See mor

Fishing boats don't want to give away their positions --- it would tell their competitors where the fish are. Because of this their radios are often suddenly broken or inoperative.
Besides, they told everybody they were heading out to go fishing yesterday, on channel 68, when they left Gloucester. Weren't you listening? Pay attention!
nolatom likes this.
paulk is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sailboat Struck, Sunk By Tugboat Near Golden Gate Bridge - CBS Local NewsReader News Feeds 0 01-30-2013 12:40 PM
Shipping canal near Baltimore shuts down after tugboat, sailboat ... - San Diego Union Tribune NewsReader News Feeds 0 05-19-2007 09:15 PM
Tugboat, sailboat collide, shut shortcut - Asbury Park Press NewsReader News Feeds 0 05-19-2007 08:15 PM
Tugboat, sailboat collide, shut shortcut - Asbury Park Press NewsReader News Feeds 0 05-15-2007 05:15 AM
Shipping canal near Baltimore shuts down after tugboat, sailboat ... - San Diego Union Tribune NewsReader News Feeds 0 05-14-2007 07:15 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome