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Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Seamanship & Navigation
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  #81  
Old 02-26-2014
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Re: Recreational Sailboat vs. Tugboat with Barge: Who Has the Right of Way? - See mor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rozz View Post
I have had this happen here (in san diego)... I give way. So u have to have ur comfortable gf hold ur wine glass for a few min, who cares? Yes I get the law, but how about common courtesy and sense?
I agree... However, you might want to leave the fact that you are drinking alcohol at the helm out out your argument!
If there was a incident, I can hear the testimony now: "I did every thing in my power to avoid collision. I even put down my glass of wine!".
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Last edited by L124C; 02-26-2014 at 01:20 PM.
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  #82  
Old 02-26-2014
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Re: Recreational Sailboat vs. Tugboat with Barge: Who Has the Right of Way? - See mor

OK, so if I'm tacking up a marked traffic channel, centerboard down the full nine feet, with my two barges strung out well behind me, and I see an LPG tanker coming DOWN the same marked channel, riding high in the water and possibly empty, who has to blink first?

Rule of Tonnage is all so much simpler...
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  #83  
Old 04-03-2015
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Re: Recreational Sailboat vs. Tugboat with Barge: Who Has the Right of Way? - See mor

Having been on the bridge of a large vessel in San Diego harbor in a situation similar to this, let me quote the Captain. "Maintain course and speed, we'll pay the fine." Tonnage rule.
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  #84  
Old 04-03-2015
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Re: Recreational Sailboat vs. Tugboat with Barge: Who Has the Right of Way? - See mor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yorksailor View Post
A very good analysis and sensible comment by BoatyardBoy.

We sail 4,000 nm per year and have over 200 ship interactions. We follow the rules, negotiate passings frequently on the VHF and unless we have a problem are as considerate as we can be to commercial vessels.

If the tug/tow was claiming rights as a RAM (restricted in ability to maneuver) we would get out of his way, if not we would call on the radio but would have a very low threshold for getting out of his way. We often find that a few degree change in our course will avoid all problems, providing you pick them up and make the change at 10 miles plus. AIS has significantly improved our ability to easily handle interactions and make the correct course changes. We transmit on AIS and use the radio so the large course changes I used to make, showing them the other light, is now rarely necessary.


Phil
I sometimes cruise in New York Harbor and up the Hudson River and find AIS most helpful for the reasons you state. Both I on my 30 foot sailboat and the BIG ships are able to see each other and just make slight course corrections often without having to communicate via the VHF. Much less stressful than wondering what the other guys intentions are.
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  #85  
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Re: Recreational Sailboat vs. Tugboat with Barge: Who Has the Right of Way? - See mor

Yes! AIS makes life simpler (at least when everyone has it). I still respect the tonnage rule. One of the ships I was on had one screw and 20K tons (660 feet). She was a pig to turn! She could turn, though. We did a donut in the Malaka straights at midnite when a tug and unlit tow cut accross us.
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Old 04-08-2015
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Re: Recreational Sailboat vs. Tugboat with Barge: Who Has the Right of Way? - See mor

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Originally Posted by L124C View Post
There is a picture of a sailboat hanging off the bow of a barge on page 82 in this months Latitude 38. Download Latitude 38
In case anyone is still looking for this, it's page 84 of the January 2014 issue:

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  #87  
Old 04-08-2015
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Re: Recreational Sailboat vs. Tugboat with Barge: Who Has the Right of Way? - See mor

New reels catch fish so purchase some.

From what I understand, rarely is anyone ever held 100% responsible when two vessels collide, so even if you feel you are in the right, you won't ever be completely right. If you can get the hell out of the way, do so.

This seems to be a long debate with a short answer.
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Re: Recreational Sailboat vs. Tugboat with Barge: Who Has the Right of Way? - See mor

Story related to me by a licensed captain. A fully laden tanker was proceeding down a narrow channel when it was facing a sailboat in the middle of the channel. The sailboat was contacted and asked to move outside the channel where there was good depth. The sailboat said I am a sailboat you give way, the tanker tried again with the same response. The tanker skipper picked up the bridge phone, contacted the law department and described the situation, he either had to ground the tanker, or proceed straight ahead, no room to stop. He was told to proceed straight ahead. The settlement for the sailboat and dead skipper was much less than the fines and clean up expense. The law of gross tonnage is absolute.
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  #89  
Old 04-08-2015
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Re: Recreational Sailboat vs. Tugboat with Barge: Who Has the Right of Way? - See mor

(from the original post)
Rule 2b. “in construing and complying with these Rules, due regard shall be had to all dangers of navigation and collision, and to any special circumstances, including the limitations of the vessels involved, which may make a departure from these Rules necessary to avoid immediate danger.”

The law professor ended with "sailboat operators need to stay diligent around commercial vessels and take steps to avoid collision when it appears that the commercial vessel will be unable to stay clear."

Law of gross tonnage. Same thing.

"Stand on" and "give way" are not absolute values, they respond to circumstances. Yes, we need to know the COLREG rules and act in ways that are consistent and predictable. That also includes a healthy dose of common sense. In short, this is a place where law and common sense agree - get out of the way of the big guys.
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Last edited by Scotty C-M; 04-09-2015 at 06:15 PM.
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  #90  
Old 04-09-2015
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Re: Recreational Sailboat vs. Tugboat with Barge: Who Has the Right of Way? - See mor

Quote:
Originally Posted by adki110 View Post
Story related to me by a licensed captain. A fully laden tanker was proceeding down a narrow channel when it was facing a sailboat in the middle of the channel. The sailboat was contacted and asked to move outside the channel where there was good depth. The sailboat said I am a sailboat you give way, the tanker tried again with the same response. The tanker skipper picked up the bridge phone, contacted the law department and described the situation, he either had to ground the tanker, or proceed straight ahead, no room to stop. He was told to proceed straight ahead. The settlement for the sailboat and dead skipper was much less than the fines and clean up expense. The law of gross tonnage is absolute.
Good story but I find it hard to believe. This would be pre-meditated murder and more than a fine would have had to be paid.
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