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Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Seamanship & Navigation
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Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.


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  #21  
Old 12-14-2013
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Re: sailing on 'headsail'

Some boats sail and balance amazingly well on a genny alone. The CS-36T is one of therm.. She sails and balances extremely well under genny alone. I know many boats won't do this well, our old CD-27 could not get out of her way under genny alone, but some boats can..

If sailing under jib alone is "wanking" I will put my days per year of "wanking" up against just about anyone's "sailing" days per year. I can do a quick hours sneak off sail and get 50 minutes of sailing time in when flying just our 150%. If I hoist the main, and put it away, I lose a solid 25 minutes of "wanking" time.

Sneaking off for a 25 minute "sail" is just not worth the effort but a 50 minute "wank" is worth it.. So watch for me out wanking while your trying to figure out how to cram it all in and calling off a nice wank-sail because your idea of what sailing "must" be precluded you from a sail when you likely had plenty of time if you had only chosen to wank...

Some boats wank really, really well ours just happens to be one of those wank sailors, and I use it to my advantage and pack many sails into time frames I can not if I were to insist sailing must include the main........

Yep I am a wank sailor and not ashamed to admit it... Oh and I often dust fully canvassed "real" sailors while casually wanking along......
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  #22  
Old 12-14-2013
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Re: sailing on 'headsail'

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Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
Some boats sail and balance amazingly well on a genny alone. The CS-36T is one of therm.. She sails and balances extremely well under genny alone. I know many boats won't do this well, our old CD-27 could not get out of her way under genny alone, but some boats can..

If sailing under jib alone is "wanking" I will put my days per year of "wanking" up against just about anyone's "sailing" days per year. I can do a quick hours sneak off sail and get 50 minutes of sailing time in when flying just our 150%. If I hoist the main, and put it away, I lose a solid 25 minutes of "wanking" time.

Sneaking off for a 25 minute "sail" is just not worth the effort but a 50 minute "wank" is worth it.. So watch for me out wanking while your trying to figure out how to cram it all in and calling off a nice wank-sail because your idea of what sailing "must" be precluded you from a sail when you likely had plenty of time if you had only chosen to wank...

Some boats wank really, really well ours just happens to be one of those wank sailors, and I use it to my advantage and pack many sails into time frames I can not if I were to insist sailing must include the main........

Yep I am a wank sailor and not ashamed to admit it... Oh and I often dust fully canvassed "real" sailors while casually wanking along......
The Rhodes 22 is one of these, too! A simple jamb cleat release and you are off. A "quickie" that provided a lot of sailing time for me. That scaled up dinghy went like a Styrofoam cup before the wind.

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  #23  
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Re: sailing on 'headsail'

O K, I confess I'm a wanker too. Our boat does quite well on our 135 alone. Please don't tell mom.
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Old 12-14-2013
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Re: sailing on 'headsail'

So this is all about being too lazy to raise the main! I confess that I have been guilty of that as well. However, think about this. Next time you are feeling too lazy, remember all the work you put into the boat and all the expense. You came all the way out for a sail, so go ahead and put up the main!

If one is having trouble tacking on the jib alone, then I suspect that there isn't much wind, and one ought to have both sails up anyway.
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Re: sailing on 'headsail'

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Originally Posted by jimkyle99 View Post
No offence taken. I'll consider what you said and do some research. But I'm having trouble imagining the conditions where spilling reefed main and a jib is not a better balanced plan than jib alone. Like I said, more research needed.
The difficulty you're having wth sailing on jib alone is probably not attributable to you, or to your boat. As you can see from the above comments, others are experiencing difficulties with it as well as you, and I don't think it's a reasonable assumption that they are all unskilled.

If you will read all the posts, you'll begin to see a pattern. The people who seem to be able to sail well on the headsail alone talk about sailing on 135% or 150% genoa. The ones who are having difficulty are often talking about using a smaller, partly furled jib.

I found that, when sailing on an overlapping jib alone (about 130% or more), it is much easier to sail on jib alone than with a smaller jib. If you think about the basic function of the mainsail and the jib, it will make sense. Basically, the jib provides forward drive. The mainsail pushes the stern to leeward, which helps keep the boat pointing to windward.

If you are sailing on a smallish jib alone, the problem arises when you tack. During the tack, the boat loses alot of forward momentum. As a result, the keel and rudder lose lift. When that happens, the amount of pressure that is being exerted forward of the boat's center of lateral resistance (CLR) by the jib is pulling the boat's bow to leeward. The keel and rudder are trying to steer the bow to windward, but, because they are creating less lift, they don't have enough power to overcome the jib's pull to leeward. The result is that the bow falls off to leeward.

I'll grant that some boats just behave a little better than others, and boat handling skill can maximize the boat's ability to sail on jib alone, but skill can't change the laws of physics. If you're having difficulty sailing on jib alone, try doing it with a bigger, overlapping jib. When the jib is big enough so that part of it extends aft of the CLR, that part of the jib performs part of the function that would ordinarily be performed by the mainsail. That is, it pushes the stern to leeward, and helps the keel and rudder get the boat to point to windward after a tack.
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Last edited by Sailormon6; 12-14-2013 at 08:39 AM.
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Old 12-14-2013
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Re: sailing on 'headsail'

I've sailed around on my jib/genny only....and moved about just fine there and back...

Guess I just didn't know any better...
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Re: sailing on 'headsail'

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Originally Posted by AirborneSF View Post
On windy days, have heard try sailing on one sail, and then the other, soooooooo, tis what I tried. I'm thinking "in irons", is a better term than "hove-to", sorry. Running on 'head sail' only makes sense, I was just trying to see how she would handle, lesson learned. Thanks for the reply's.
Wile not really quite true, but if you mean to do it it is called hove-to, if you did not mean to do it it is called in irons... It is not exactly the same, but in effect hove to is like intentionally going into irons.
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Old 12-14-2013
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Re: sailing on 'headsail'

Hove to isn't the same as being in irons. When you are hove-to the boat is turned about 50 degrees off of the wind, which is definitely not in irons for most sloops.

MaineSail: Why does getting your main sail ready and put away take an additional 25 minutes? I do a lot of short sails too, but getting the main sail cover off, halyard on, then flaking the sail and putting it all back together takes less than 5 minutes. I know that your main is 100sqft bigger (and probably twice as heavy), but 25 minutes sounds like an ordeal.

In Puget Sound the waters are long and skinny and the wind usually runs north or south, aligned with the water. As a result almost all sailing here is either upwind or downwind, which means that I'm close hauled about half of the time (if not more). I can point higher with both sails, and even if that is only 5 degrees it is worth it.
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Re: sailing on 'headsail'

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzk View Post
So this is all about being too lazy to raise the main! I confess that I have been guilty of that as well. However, think about this. Next time you are feeling too lazy, remember all the work you put into the boat and all the expense. You came all the way out for a sail, so go ahead and put up the main!
Taking it down, too.

I used to keep my Rhodes behind the breakwater in Eastport. I could sail in, gradually reducing the jib to slow down, and finally round up as I headed between the two boats I would tie up to. The boat would slow to a stop with the sail rolled up and I could step off onto one of the boats to finish docking. The speed control of just using the jib was important. I was done. Tied up and no main to put away. Slick. It occasionally earned me applause from someone who watched in horror, not realizing what I was doing, as I came around the end of the breakwater under sail. There is no way out! Ha!

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Last edited by downeast450; 12-15-2013 at 08:02 AM.
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  #30  
Old 12-14-2013
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Re: sailing on 'headsail'

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Now go down to your boat some afternoon for a few hours, and feel a 20-25 breeze on your face?

Quote:
The people who seem to be able to sail well on the headsail alone talk about sailing on 135% or 150% genoa. The ones who are having difficulty are often talking about using a smaller, partly furled jib.


I think my answer is in here some place1) If I went down to the dock and found the wind was +25kns in my face my next move would be to check the dock lines and head back to the coffee shop with my paper. (2) I have a 180% genny that likely has the center of effort close to the CLE but I have never considered trying it alone - never felt the urge.
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