Where to keep the outboard gas can - Page 3 - SailNet Community
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post #21 of 43 Old 11-25-2005 Thread Starter
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Where to keep the outboard gas can

I agree
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post #22 of 43 Old 11-26-2005
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Where to keep the outboard gas can

I should have asked earlier. Is your LPG Locker actually used to store LPG bottle(s)?
If not, no problem, use it as you will.
If so, is there really room for a gas can as well as a propane bottle? Will the Gas can impede ready access to the propane valve & regulator?

Any spilled gasoline (or vapours) may attack the rubber propane delivery hose; which would also apply to rope in the bow locker.

FWIW,
Gord May
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post #23 of 43 Old 11-26-2005
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Where to keep the outboard gas can

Regarding the question of whether gasoline vapors are heavier or lighter than air, gasoline is a multi-component mixture (not a single chemical compound), and the composition varies in different regions and at different times of year. Thus it may possible that some of the components volatilize to lighter-than-air vapors, while we know that most of the others do produce heavier-than-air vapors. So where-ever you choose to store gasoline, it should be well-ventilated and isolated from the interior of the boat.
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post #24 of 43 Old 03-13-2006
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Ditto on the gas affecting the seals in the LP tank and regulator if installed the locker. The rope is not affected by gas fumes to the extent it would really do much to it. Most rope is fairly resistant to chemicals like solvents because the chemicals in the rope are stabilized and don't change very easily. Dive gear and any rubber products will be eaten up by gas fumes.
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post #25 of 43 Old 03-14-2006
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Just my thinking, but I view propane stored under pressure in an aluminum or steel container secured by a closed valve as a different beast than a gerry jug with gas sloshing around. The gas and it's container expand and contract daily. I do not expect my propane tanks to leak. I do expect fumes to escape from my gas cans. Store them where you like, but I would keep them away from sources of ignition such as engine. I would be concerned than, on my boat, gas fumes escaping my propane locker could settle in the cockpit. The upper chain locker is a possibility, but mine is shallow with deep chain locker below directly accessable from v berth, so I will keep mine on deck and shaded. While gas fumes are heavier than air, I believe Gord May is correct when he said the fumes "will not disperse through the bottom propane vent drain, but will collect in the locker". My propane locker is not vented except for the small drain line so it does not have any significant air exchange. Improving ventilation could make it work for me.

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post #26 of 43 Old 03-14-2006
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MSDSGasoline

Canadian Centre for Occupational Health & Safety:
http://www.intox.org/databank/docume...line/cie25.htm
Essentially the same info:
http://www.emo.ie/products/safety-sh...DED_PETROL.pdf

CCOHS Chemical Name: Gasoline
Vapour Density: 2.5-3.7 (air=1) (calculated)
Fire Hazard Summary:
Extremely flammable. Material will readily ignite at room temperature. Can release vapours that form explosive mixtures with air. Liquid can accumulate static charge by flow or agitation. Vapour can be ignited by static discharge. Vapour is heavier than air and may travel a considerable distance to a source of ignition and flash back to a leak or open container. Liquid can float on water and may travel to distant locations and/or spread fire. During a fire, irritating/toxic gases may be generated. Can accumulate in confined spaces, resulting in a toxicity and flammability hazard. Containers may explode in heat of fire.
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post #27 of 43 Old 03-14-2006
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"I believe Gord May is correct when he said the fumes "will not disperse through the bottom propane vent drain, but will collect in the locker".

captlar,

Gasoline fumes will disburse through the vent drain. As has already been stipulated, gasoline fumes are heavier than air - not lighter as was erroneously stated earlier.

Why do you feel gasoline fumes are any more likely than propane gas to "collect" in the locker (assuming the ventilation is adequately designed for propane)?

Last edited by wwilson; 03-14-2006 at 06:35 PM.
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post #28 of 43 Old 03-14-2006
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I would not expect the locker drain to save my bacon if I had a serious propane leak and untimely spark. I work to prevent the leak. ABYC recommendations are no more than recommendations. They should not be viewed as a solution, just a recommendation to make something safer...but not safe. I don't know if ABYC makes recommendations for storing gas. That is probably what we should be asking. Essentially, you have a fuel tank, and therefore might consider those ABYC recommendations. You know - straps, vents, grounding, baffles, fire port or suppression system. There is a reason we love diesel and fear gas.
I know that when you have gas fumes escaping, you can smell them high, low, everywhere. They drift all over. That's not "stipulated" or science, just practical experience. If you believe gas fumes will safely disperse, go to it.

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post #29 of 43 Old 03-14-2006
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captlar

The relevant standard on this topic is ABYC "H-2 Ventilation of Boats Using Gasoline (2000)". The question, well posed by Irwin32 back in September of last year was, "WHY is the propane locker a bad place for the storage of gasoline?" I have the ABYC standard ($40, 8-pg) in front of me now, and it is as silent on this question now as it has ever been.

Up to this point, the thread was exploring the logic of using an existing (ABYC) ventilated compartment to safely disperse both the gas that it was intended for as well as another gas (gasoline fumes) from the same vent. It may indeed be poor practice, but it would be interesting to know why from the standpoint of science, or at least sound reasoning. Sometimes experience does provide a useful answer--go read post #18 below. A firefighter with 22-years of experience is worth listening to I think. It was no one's intention in this thread, until you suggested it, to just "go to it".

Last edited by wwilson; 03-14-2006 at 11:15 PM.
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post #30 of 43 Old 03-14-2006
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Having used propane nearly all my life I have to say that propane is not oderless, it has a very noticeable smell to it, I think it's added the same way as natural gas' characteristic oder is.

Gasoline fumes are heavier than air, but not as heavy as propane fumes, so they -may- not drain out of the locker as rapidly as propane fumes would, and also, as stated earlier, the propane is sealed, gasoline cans arent, so there will be more fumes produced.
So my view is that it realy depends on where the locker is, where it drains, and how large the drain is. That being said, I used an outboard tank on the floor of an old station wagon (bad tank in car) for a couple years and had no problems with it, never smelled fumes once, so if the tank is tight and leakfree you should be fine.

ken.
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