Elevator method of COB recovery mixed results - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Seamanship & Navigation
 Not a Member? 

Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.


Like Tree15Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 08-04-2014
Minnesail's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 904
Thanks: 125
Thanked 32 Times in 31 Posts
Rep Power: 2
Minnesail is on a distinguished road
Elevator method of COB recovery mixed results

On Sunday we tried the elevator method for crew-overboard recovery where you cleat a line at the bow and run it back to a winch, leaving a loop in the water for someone to sit or stand on.

Meh.

I tried to winch a friend up. First he stood on it, but couldn't keep his balance. Then he sat on it but my boat is small and the hull goes in right under the water line, so when he tried to sit on the line he just ended up under the boat. He wanted no more of it.

I'm a little more coordinated than he is, so I tried next. I was able to make it work by standing on the line while I was winched up high enough to scramble over the side, but it wasn't easy. If there were any significant waves I'm not sure I could have kept my balance.

In summary, at least on my boat, it's not a terribly likely option for a COB recovery.
davidpm and christian.hess like this.
__________________
Catalina 22
on a starboard tack
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
The Following User Says Thank You to Minnesail For This Useful Post:
smackdaddy (08-04-2014)
  #2  
Old 08-04-2014
pdqaltair's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Posts: 2,182
Thanks: 1
Thanked 31 Times in 31 Posts
Rep Power: 6
pdqaltair is on a distinguished road
Re: Elevator method of COB recovery mixed results

MOB. We are NOT going to introduce a PC acronym for a safety item. GPS units have MOB buttons. Lets not be stupid (yes, I know this is not your fault--this is a public rant). If a person yells "man overboard" we all get it, just as a climber yells "rock" for anything that is dropped, not "backpack" or "tree limb."

To my mind, for a small boat, the MOB can either manage a ladder (relatively uninjured) or they are going to need hoisting aboard (not easy on a small boat without winches and the mass to get it to hold still). Fortunately, on small boats the person generally just tripped and is able to climb; big boats they are more likely to have been injured by violent weather or moving equipment. If there is crew that is not able to climb a ladder (disability or fitness) they better stay seated. I've seen big dogs in the water that were nearly impossible to retrieve. It's a problem.

It is important in clod weather to make certain small boat crew is dressed for survival in the water, not the air temp.

For what it's worth, this is our drill:
Sail Delmarva: MOB Drills, Lifesling, and Climbing Equipment

I have owned boats without this ability, and I would not take crew that could not climb a ladder easily. It didn't make sense to me.
bblument likes this.
__________________
(when asked how he reached the starting holds on a difficult rock climbing problem that clearly favored taller climbers - he was perhaps 5'5")

"Well, I just climb up to them."

by Joe Brown, English rock climber




To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by pdqaltair; 08-04-2014 at 08:31 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
The Following User Says Thank You to pdqaltair For This Useful Post:
Minnesail (08-11-2014)
  #3  
Old 08-04-2014
erps's Avatar
the pointy end is the bow
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: La Conner, Washington
Posts: 6,153
Thanks: 2
Thanked 26 Times in 26 Posts
Rep Power: 10
erps will become famous soon enough erps will become famous soon enough
Re: Elevator method of COB recovery mixed results

I've brought folks back on board a small craft an onto the swim step of our work boat by rolling them onto the boat with two lines. Bring the body along side. Secure two lines to the boat. Run the loose ends under the body and then back up to the boat. One line high on the torso under the arm pits. Second line under the hips. Pull on the bitter ends of the lines and the body rolls up hill onto your deck. I rolled a body about 140 lbs by myself one time and two guys can roll in a two hundred pounder without too much effort.
__________________
Ray
S.V. Nikko
1983 Fraser 41
La Conner, WA


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Boating for over 25 years, some of them successfully.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #4  
Old 08-11-2014
John Casey's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Pozzuoli Italy
Posts: 27
Thanks: 3
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 0
John Casey is on a distinguished road
Re: Elevator method of COB recovery mixed results

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdqaltair View Post
I have owned boats without this ability, and I would not take crew that could not climb a ladder easily. It didn't make sense to me.
Good advice to follow i.e prevention/mitigate on the front end vs cure/solve at the wrong time.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #5  
Old 08-11-2014
krazzz's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Ludington, MI
Posts: 137
Thanks: 2
Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts
Rep Power: 2
krazzz is on a distinguished road
Re: Elevator method of COB recovery mixed results

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdqaltair View Post
MOB. We are NOT going to introduce a PC acronym for a safety item. GPS units have MOB buttons.
+1 I clicked on this thread just to see what "COB" was.
GMFL likes this.
__________________
Ludington, Michigan - Lake Michigan
1971 Ericson 32 Hull # 193
1974 Catalina 22

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #6  
Old 08-11-2014
bblument's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Syracuse area, NY
Posts: 208
Thanks: 41
Thanked 29 Times in 21 Posts
Rep Power: 2
bblument is on a distinguished road
Re: Elevator method of COB recovery mixed results

Quote:
Originally Posted by krazzz View Post
+1 I clicked on this thread just to see what "COB" was.
We usually just chuck ours in the woods off our deck when we're done eating the corn from'em. On the other hand, we'd NEVER chuck a MOB.

A serious question, as I'm still a long ways from being fully up to speed on sailing terminology. Does the word "crew" refer to any person aboard, or only someone who may assist with the actual sailing? Is a guest who's purely along for the ride and has no interest at all in handling anything still technically referred to as a "crew?" If not, then isn't "MOB" a better term in the first place.. unless we need to differentiate between the worth of a "COB" or a "GOB (Guest OverBoard)?"

The entire PC thing drives me nuts, too... AND my wife nuts. "Man" is just a word. Yes, it can be used to refer to the male gender of our species, i.e., "man and woman," but it also means our species in general, i.e., "mankind." If a dog fell overboard, wouldn't we just say "Dog Overboard?" We wouldn't say "Bitch Overboard" or "Stud Overboard," depending on gender, would we? Then why do we have to avoid using the word "man" when it refers to our species, not our gender? Let's go further... the word "woman" HAS the word "man" in it. We need to get rid of that, too. How about "wosapiens?"

Sheeeesh... I have a headache. I've got to go take some Advil to see if I can womanage the womangling it's doing to my brain before doing some peoplual labor today...

Love and snoodles,

Barry
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
"Without question, the greatest invention in the history of mankind is beer. Oh, I grant you that the wheel was also a fine invention, but the wheel does not go nearly as well with pizza." - Dave Barry
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #7  
Old 08-11-2014
Minnesail's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 904
Thanks: 125
Thanked 32 Times in 31 Posts
Rep Power: 2
Minnesail is on a distinguished road
Re: Elevator method of COB recovery mixed results

PDQ, thanks for the link to your write-up.

If a person just tripped and fell off they could use the swim ladder to get back up, so I'm mostly trying to figure out how I'd get an injured or weakened COB back on board.

The next thing I'm going to try is the boom vang. It's 4-to-1 so a 180 lb person is still going to need 45 lbs of pull, but that should be doable. I don't have a topping lift, so I'm thinking I'll run the main halyard around the boom where the vang attaches, then swing the boom out over the side and hoist away.

My vang is about three feet from the mast, which means it's about a foot in from the edge of the boat so it wouldn't be lifting the person straight out, it would kind of be dragging them over the edge.

I've thought about using the main sheet from the end of the boom, but I'm not sure my rig is made to hold that much weight that far out, and with only 550 lbs of keel I'm not sure I want 180 lbs hanging on a 10' lever.

I should probably pick up a Lifesling.


I'm chartering a 39' Beneteau in Septemeber, I'll try the elevator method on that and see if it works better. I'm thinking it might work better with the larger, flatter hull.
__________________
Catalina 22
on a starboard tack
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #8  
Old 08-11-2014
Minnesail's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 904
Thanks: 125
Thanked 32 Times in 31 Posts
Rep Power: 2
Minnesail is on a distinguished road
Re: Elevator method of COB recovery mixed results

Quote:
Originally Posted by krazzz View Post
+1 I clicked on this thread just to see what "COB" was.
Oh jeeebus...... You people.

"Whaaaa, boo hoo, change is hard! Whaaaaaaaa!"

"Crew" is just as fast and easy to say as "man" and is equally unmistakable. One syllable folks, one syllable. Is anyone really going to be confused if they hear someone yell "crew overboard!"?

I have the most recent edition of Annapolis. If you look up "man overboard" in the index is says "see crew overboard."
__________________
Catalina 22
on a starboard tack
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #9  
Old 08-11-2014
bblument's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Syracuse area, NY
Posts: 208
Thanks: 41
Thanked 29 Times in 21 Posts
Rep Power: 2
bblument is on a distinguished road
Re: Elevator method of COB recovery mixed results

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnesail View Post
Oh jeeebus...... You people.

"Whaaaa, boo hoo, change is hard! Whaaaaaaaa!"

"Crew" is just as fast and easy to say as "man" and is equally unmistakable. One syllable folks, one syllable. Is anyone really going to be confused if they hear someone yell "crew overboard!"?

I have the most recent edition of Annapolis. If you look up "man overboard" in the index is says "see crew overboard."
Point taken. Mostly, I was just poking fun at the whole thing, not railing against it. I still think it's absurd that we spend so much time these days policing relatively harmless linguistic idiosyncrasies.. that's all. On the other hand, my question still stands... does the word "crew" refer to ANY soul on board including passengers not involved in handling the vessel in any way? If not, then why do we often hear the phrase "passengers and crew?" If they are different, do we need the term "POB" in addition to "COB?" I know.. stupid. That's kind of my point about the whole thing. Too much energy expended on something that's not really a problem in the first place.

Change ain't hard, either.. I just don't do it for the sake of change. To solve a problem or improve a situation, change is wonderful. However, expending energy to change something that DOES work well or that "ain't broke" when that energy could better be spent elsewhere goes against my nature.

Leaving that whole issue aside, I DO thank you for starting this thread. The whole recovery issue has been on my mind lately, and I, too, am about to purchase a LifeSling to be used in conjunction with a quick-disconnect block and tackle boom vang attached to a halyard in emergencies. Thanks for the information.. much appreciated.

Best to ya,

Barry
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
"Without question, the greatest invention in the history of mankind is beer. Oh, I grant you that the wheel was also a fine invention, but the wheel does not go nearly as well with pizza." - Dave Barry

Last edited by bblument; 08-11-2014 at 12:41 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #10  
Old 08-11-2014
Minnesail's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 904
Thanks: 125
Thanked 32 Times in 31 Posts
Rep Power: 2
Minnesail is on a distinguished road
Re: Elevator method of COB recovery mixed results

The sailing club I'm uses Person Overboard and POB as their official terms in the instructors manual. I find that a bit clunky. But the club also uses "sidestay" instead of "shroud" so what the hell do they know?

John Rousmaniere uses COB, so that's good enough for me. I don't find saying "crew" any clunkier than "man" and everybody knows what you mean.

I also say "firefighter" instead of "fireman." I know a couple chick firefighters who much prefer the term, and even guys prefer it because "fighter" sounds more bad ass. If it's not any more work and if the usage isn't clunky, why not go with the gender-neutral term? I don't see any point sticking with old terms out of some sort of misplaced sense of tradition.

Anyway.....



Quote:
Originally Posted by bblument View Post
a LifeSling to be used in conjunction with a quick-disconnect block and tackle boom vang
Yes!

If I find the vang tackle makes a good recovery system I'll need to get some sort of quick release mechanism. On Saturday I used the vang tackle to lift a battery out (very slick) and it was kind of a pain to disconnect it from the base of the mast.
__________________
Catalina 22
on a starboard tack
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hove To COB Procedure davidpm Seamanship & Navigation 25 02-01-2010 11:02 AM
COB Reality davidpm General Discussion (sailing related) 10 07-09-2009 12:54 PM
Mob/cob Gary1 General Discussion (sailing related) 6 04-19-2009 09:37 PM
Could you do COB recovery by yourself? davidpm General Discussion (sailing related) 77 04-17-2009 08:50 PM
Quickstop COB recovery ccboston Seamanship & Navigation 6 04-11-2004 12:33 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:50 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.