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Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Seamanship & Navigation
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  #11  
Old 08-05-2006
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Water pressure

You are right, if you notice I said when the boat pulls on it. The pressure is downward. Tie a rope say to a garbage/dustbin lid, throw it over the side, pull it up, you will notice the pressure is not neutral.
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  #12  
Old 08-05-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solent
You are right, if you notice I said when the boat pulls on it. The pressure is downward. Tie a rope say to a garbage/dustbin lid, throw it over the side, pull it up, you will notice the pressure is not neutral.
If you are relying on water pressure to hold your boat in place, you're a bigger fool than I thought.

The resistance you feel, trying to pull a dustbin lid up, is not water pressure, but resistance due to the shape of the lid and the viscosity of the water. However, water is not as viscous as mud or sand, which provides far more resistance to the anchor moving. You might want to re-read what I've written previously about what the real forces holding your anchor to the bottom really are.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
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  #13  
Old 08-05-2006
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Sailingdog, I'm glad you said it

and not me. It saves me alot of time.
Some of the replies you get here can be outright scary. That is almost as good as, if you jump into the air inside a house you will crash into a wall, due to the earths rotation.

Fair winds

Cap'n Dave
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  #14  
Old 08-05-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capn_dave
and not me. It saves me alot of time.
Some of the replies you get here can be outright scary. That is almost as good as, if you jump into the air inside a house you will crash into a wall, due to the earths rotation.

Fair winds

Cap'n Dave
LOL... Yeah... water pressure is really gonna hold a boat in place... under that theory, the boat should be flying through the air from the water pressure underneath it.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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  #15  
Old 08-10-2006
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What!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by solent
Reading theses posts explain why at some achorages yachts are swinging into the position of other yachts. There is a certain amount of rode required depending on the depth of water. The anchor is not what holds the boat, it is the water pressure pressing down on the surface of the rope as the boat pulls on it.
I hope I never anchor near you! The anchor IS most certainly what holds the boat. A good length of rode keeps the line more horizontal so the anchor can remain set and not yank out from a rode that is almost vertical. That is the most ridiculous logic I have ever heard and I've been sailing for 35 years. There is no downward pressure on nylon rope that is enough to even make a difference. Whn you get in the water is there downward pressure on you? No! Rope is the same it is actually ligher when it is in the water due to trapped air in the strands and the nearly neutral bouyancy of nylon. Now if you run an all chain rode than the weight of the chain is what keeps the line closer to the bottom not "water pressure"?? If the anchor does not hold the boat why don't you just toss some rode over board next time you're out and see where you wind up.

The proper scope for anchoring is 7:1 but in many anchorages you need to pull back to 5:1 or perhaps 4:1 but lets hope the wind does not blow. You should always set and BURY the anchor on a long scope like 7:1 minimum. On a short scope the anchor will only bury partially and not very deep. I anchor out constantly and frequently dive on my anchors . I have been dragged onto many times by inept idiots who don't know how to properly set an anchor so I make it sort of my mission to never drag and always set my anchor by backing down hard with a minimum 7:1 scope. I once handled a storm with gusts to 74mph. When we woke up in the morning the only other boat left in the anchorage, that was not on the rocks, was using the same scope as me a 10:1.

Keep in mind that scope is water depth PLUS bow height from water. Most sailors look at their uncalibrated depth sounder that is 12-18 inches below the surface and think ok I have 10 feet of depth I'll run a 5:1 at 50 feet. The reality is that in order to run a 5:1 in this situation you would need to add back the 1 foot for the transducer and the 4 feet of bow height making it 15 feet not ten! a 5:1 in this situation is 75 feet of rode not 50. So now most sailors are really setting 3:1 scopes and not burrying the anchor at all.

As for the ASA instructor barely passing the OP that guy should have his teaching certificate revoked he's an idiot..

Anchoring is easy:

Figure scope - water depth plus height of bow
Drop hook to bottom while already moving backwards (don't drop moving forward or you run the risk of fouling the flukes or shank when you set in reverse)
Pay out scope to 7:1+
Cleat off anchor rode and back down at about 2/3 throttle to make sure anchor is set.
Pull back to 5:1 if necessary
If wind picks up to 15-17+ go back to 7:1 if wind goes over thirty go higher with the scope..
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  #16  
Old 08-10-2006
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I think the best time of the day is to get to the anchorage early, set my hook, fix myself a drink and watch everyone else come in. A laugh a minute. You can tell the newbies right away.
Up in the 1000 Islands, they rent these house boats to just about anyone. They come into the cove ,literaly drop the anchor (danforth) over the side with 20 feet of rope in 10 feet of water and go inside.
Most of these rentals end up on the rocks or worse.. into some unsuspecting boat in the middle of the night.
If you really want to have a good nights rest. After you are sure you have set your anchor - slide a down rigger weight ( 10 -15 lbs) ) 10 feet down your anchor rode. It decreases the angle your rode sits to the bottom . Of you ahev have to have the weight attached to your boat.
alan
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Thanks solent for retracting your stupid statment and adding an even more idiotic one. The pressure is in fact neutral. When you pull up you are feeling resistance. If you were to pull down it would be the same if the lid had neutral bouyancy. Can I put foreward a motion that people should have to pass a grade 8 physics test before they can post? Was it you that asked about the fan on the sailboat? Cause that wasn't even as stupid as this. Thanks for coming out.
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  #18  
Old 08-10-2006
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I've seen it all...

But last weekend was the funniest one yet. A guy comes into a cove in a Macgregor 26, goes to the bow to launch his Danforth type anchor with about 6 feet of the white, rubber coated chain & a 3/8 rode. He then proceded to do the "Hollywood Toss". He look like he was throwing a shot put. He did this four times and pulled the anchor back "fouled" each time. I finally felt bad that he spent so much time watching people launch anchors on TV that I went over to help.

I explained nicely the concept of how and anchor digs in and how rode works and how you need to be moving backwards before the anchor actually hits the bottom etc etc.. Now keep in mind I did not TELL him how to anchor just explained the concept. The guy was so flamboyanty arrogant he proceded to tell me to "bug off buddy I know how to anchor a boat". I went my merry way because the guy was behind me not in front of me, if he had been in front he would have got an ear full, and I waited. About 9:30 I heard some yelling and saw lights it seems the "know it all" really had no clue how to anchor & dragged into a J Boat who were not real happy. He wound up motoring off in the dark with his wife yelling at him never to be seen again...

The arrogance of sailors with little knowledge cracks me up to no end. So just remeber it's the weight of the water on the rode that keeps you anchored & not the anchor! Not!!!!!!
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  #19  
Old 08-10-2006
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I personally like aphil138's approach... and the weight he's talking about is an anchor kellet...
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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  #20  
Old 08-11-2006
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Some of you should see this video..

I made these videos this past spring after buying yet another anchor in my quest for the ultimate Maine Coast anchor. The video's were done "above water" in an intertidal zone with a very hard sand top layer of about 4 inches and a thick mud substrate. I performed these tests to compare setting charecteristics of my own personal collection of anchors. In all I tested a CQR, Bruce, Delta, Fortress, Spade A-80 (aluminum), Spade S-80 (steel) and a Manson Supreme. Yes I own a lot of anchors but over the years as you buy & sell boats you wind up with a fairly good collection.

I won't bash any anchors but I will name the anchors I no longer use. The CQR, Bruce, Delta & Spade A-80 are no longer on my boat. I use the Manson Supreme as my Primary the Spade S-80 as my secondary and the Fortress as my stern anchor...

There are definately differences in the way all of these anchors penetrate the bottom, how quickly they penetrate and some even hop out after being set. The Manson Supreme which is similar to a Rocna was the clear winner with the Steel Spade coming in second.

To satisfy one of the above posters I'll admit I had no water pressure on the rode to aid in getting these anchors to set but I was at sea level so there was plenty of oxygen to aid the rode??? I suppose if I had done this test at camp 4 on Everest none of them would have set right????

Manson Supreme Video
http://www.dropshots.com/day.php?use...3&ctime=160000

Spade A-80 Video
http://www.dropshots.com/day.php?use...5&ctime=143932
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Last edited by Maine Sail; 08-11-2006 at 07:13 AM.
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