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Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Seamanship & Navigation
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Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.


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  #21  
Old 08-12-2006
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That's priceless. I hate to say it but I NEVER anchor next to a MAC26. Ever. Now everyone know's why.
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  #22  
Old 08-13-2006
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Exclamation On no!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newport41
Was it you that asked about the fan on the sailboat? Cause that wasn't even as stupid as this. Thanks for coming out.
Please NO, anything but THE FAN again !
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  #23  
Old 08-13-2006
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LOL, how about a windmill on a boat, and using it to power an underwater prop...
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
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Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
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  #24  
Old 08-14-2006
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How about using 2 anchors?

http://www.karenannii.com/articles/002.cfm
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  #25  
Old 08-18-2006
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Just let me comment that Solent's statement that "water pressure pressing down on the surface of the rope" has any effect on the boat's anchoring stability is not a sign of stupidity, but it just reveals a total ignorance of basic laws of physics. His school should be proud to have him once in the past as a pupil!
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  #26  
Old 08-18-2006
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Newbie Question

First, let me qualify my question: I'm fairly new to this whole thing and my experience base is very much lacking. That said, What am I missing?

I know the book solution for anchoring is 7:1 but I only carry 300 foot of line on my boat (and about 30 foot of chain on my primary anchor). To get 7:1 scope I'd have to anchor in no more than, say, about 40 foot of water and in the area I have anchored most (Thumb Cove off of Resurection Bay) that puts me about 100-200 feet off the beach. If I dropped the anchor at 40 foot and tried for a 7:1 scope I'd run aground before I could set the anchor, wouldn't I? Besides, the area can get a little crowded during our short season (it's a popular place to lay up) and I don't think there'd be room for every boat there to be swinging around in an area roughly equivalent to two football fields.

I know someone's going to laugh, but I truly don't get it.
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  #27  
Old 08-18-2006
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You've identified the considerations you need to take into account. Ideally, 7:1 is correct as a rough rule of thumb (though up to 10:1 in real storm conditions!), but not if you'll run aground, or into other boats by doing so.

Then I suggest you need to consider the alternatives: can you anchor in a shallower area? Can you find an area more protected from wind/waves where 5:1 might be acceptable? Can you locate a bit further from other boats? Can you use a kellet, and a shorter rode to achieve the same effect? And of course, using proper anchoring technique is critical, and then testing that the anchor is holding properly.

Finding the right combination of these factors, without compromising safety is what's needed. Or maybe a new anchorage?

I usually try to anchor in 20 - 30 feet of water; anything more means alot of hard work hauling the anchor/chain up through a distance that my arm muscles tell me is much to large. If you have a windlass, that's different...

Good luck!

Frank.

Last edited by FrankLanger; 08-18-2006 at 11:55 AM.
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  #28  
Old 08-18-2006
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No, that's not a bad questions at all. It is a very good question and a lack of undersatanding of anchoring causes more problems than anything else you can do sitting still. That being said:

No. The book is not wrong. In fact, 7:1 can be too little, depending on the winds, tide, seas, etc.

Let me also point out a very common mistake amongst new (and some old) sailors: That is 7:1 from where the anchor comes on deck, so to speak... not 7:1 from the waterline as most people use. Now, that extra 4 feet of freeboard may not make much of a difference when you are in 40 feet of water, but can make a difference when anchoring in 8.

That being said:

You can get by with 5:1 and sometimes even 3:1 on light days and slack tides. But I would not suggest it unless you are vigilantly watching the boat. I would never leave it unattended or go to sleep with that scope. I often call that a lunch hook... though others may have a different name. Much wind at all or current, and you will drag.

You can reduce your rhode by switching to all chain. The theory, as I understand it, is the chain is heavier and lays flatter on the surface which holds the anchor more parallel with the ocean floor. Still, even at all chain (which I typically use). I still run 7:1 unless I am just doing a lunch hook. I think you are based in the northwest? Rocky anchorages? If so, another good reason to switch to all chain.

You commented on swinging into other boats, so let me throuw out a few words of caution and some possible solutions.

1) I have always had the motto 'that the newest to arrive has to match to survive'. In other words, you have to anchor the way everyone else is anchored. This is especially true if you have chain and many others are using a rope rhode or are bahamian moored (explained later). If you let out 5:1 and they are letting out 7:1, you better watch that arc for the tide to switch. If it is tight, ask them what their scope is. I will. The only exception is if they are all anchored with too minimum of a scope for you boat. If you cannot anchor safely for swing, then as far as I am concerned, the anchorage is full.

2) Different boats swing differntly on anchor. In general, sailboats swing the same. Some will have more windage and are affected more by wind. Some will be more affected by currents. NOW, in general, motorboats will swing differently than sailboats are a much more affected by the wind versus tide. Thus, I always try and anchor clear of motor boats because (other than the genny's kicking on at night) they ride totally different on anchor. More than once I have seen a sailboat swing with the current and a motorboat stay still with the wind. Sounds that go BUMP in the night.

3) Good seamanship says it is the responsibility of the last boat not to bump into the others. If they were there first, they are right.

4) In crowded anchorages many people will use a bahamian moor. Annapolis and Chapmans have a better write-up on this than what I can explain, but basically: Drop and set one anchor and let out twice as much rode as needed. Drop a second hook (from the bow, again), and take back in the first rode to the correct amount. Effectively, you will swing in about two times your boat length. (The book shows it as inside you boat length, but that is not reality if you have much scope out).

Hope that helps. Again Chapmans and Annapolis are great gudes and have a place on every sailboat.

Fair winds...

Last edited by Cruisingdad; 08-18-2006 at 12:10 PM.
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  #29  
Old 08-18-2006
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Anchoring

Frank,

Thanks for the reply. I don't think the bottom conture in most of the local coves I've looked at on the charts or read about in the cruising guides for up here would support anchoring in 20 foot of water. We run an average 10 foot tide (or there abouts) and the shores, even in the more protected coves, tend to drop off to 70 feet or more fairly close to shore. Maybe others have different experiences in the Southcentral Alaskan cruising grounds, but most anywhere I've looked into calls for boats to anchor in 50 to 70 ft of water.

Maybe I need to purchase a longer anchor line?

And no...no windlass. I run the line back to the starboard main winch thru a fairlead (it's a three speed non self-tailing winch) and use it to haul up the anchor. My wife stands by on the bow and tails the line into the anchor locker until we get to the chain. Then I move forward and pull the chain and anchor in by hand. It's a lot of work but it gets the job done.

By the way, what's a kellet?

V/R
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  #30  
Old 08-18-2006
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Sounds like you are doing alot right, and working well with your wife to manage the anchoring process. A kellet is a weight that you attach on a separate line, and then shackle to your anchor line/rode, and slide down part way. The purpose of the kellet is to weigh down the anchor rode so that it lays more horizontally than it would without the kellet. The basic principle is that you want your anchor line at the base to lay flat on the ocean floor (preferably with chain at that point to avoid chafe). This is helped by having heavier chain there, having the kellet weigh down the rode, and having enough rode/line out. The purpose of all of this is to keep the anchor pulling horizontally to remain stuck, rather than vertically to dislodge. The weight of the kellet and chain also absorbs some of the shock/pull from wind and waves in rougher conditions.
Finally, you can buy a kellet, or make your own once you understand the principle.
Hope that helps. Comments from others welcome as well.
Frank.
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