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Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Seamanship & Navigation
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  #31  
Old 08-18-2006
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Dave,

I just read your thread and realized a terrible error you are making and should stop before it gets out of hand. Now, who is pulling in the chain?? You don't need a windlass, you are married. But, who is puilling the chain?

Have you reminded her about captain of the boat, first mate, etc???

PS It did not work for me either. I just want to keep you from making my mistakes.
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  #32  
Old 08-18-2006
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Dave6330-

I'd recommend that you install a proper windlass. Having to run the line back from the bow to the winch in the cockpit is probably a bad idea, especially in an emergency, like when your anchor is dragging and needs to be raised during heavy weather.

A windlass will allow the person on the bow to quickly secure it to the windlass and pull the anchor up, without having to run the line back to the cockpit and reduce the risk of getting their fingers caught between a surging anchor rode and a cleat or winch, while under load.

Also, if you are injured, then how would your wife get the anchor and chain back on board??

You are risking yourself, your wife and your boat by not properly equipping it.
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  #33  
Old 08-18-2006
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Reminded of what's really important

Sailingdog,

You're right - there are lots of improvements I need (and eventually will) make to CIRRUS. If I were incapacitated, my wife simply wouldn't be able to win back the anchor on her own. At best, she'd be forced to tie off the line to a bumper, cut it loose and leave it to be recovered later.

The foredeck of CIRRUS doesn't lend itself to mounting a windless. There's a hatch over the anchor locker that opens to port and takes up the entire bow area. It doesn't even have a slot like I've seen on other boats for the line to be led out of the hatch. And the bow roller is pitifully small. I'm not even sure how I would go about setting it up, but perhaps I can get some advise and come up with some reasonable courses of action.

Short of improving the way the mainsail is handled, I think working on the way we utilze the anchor will probably be our next big investment in her.

Thanks for reminding me of what's important.

V/R

Last edited by dave6330; 08-18-2006 at 11:59 PM.
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  #34  
Old 08-19-2006
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Happily married

Cruisingdad,

Har, Har! Good point but I've been married to my bride for going on 32 years now and I don't intend to rock the boat by bringing up the finer points of the chain of command on board. We know who's the boss and who gets to pull on the chain!

V/R
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  #35  
Old 08-19-2006
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BTW, a power windlass is one of the most common sources of serious injury on any boat. People stop paying attention and then their fingers end up getting caught by the rode and dragged into the windlass...and they often lose or break fingers... just food for thought. That's why I went with a manual windlass. Much less able to maul me...but still helps out...also far less weight and a much simpler installation.
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  #36  
Old 08-20-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave6330
I know the book solution for anchoring is 7:1 but I only carry 300 foot of line on my boat (and about 30 foot of chain on my primary anchor). To get 7:1 scope I'd have to anchor in no more than, say, about 40 foot of water and in the area I have anchored most (Thumb Cove off of Resurection Bay) that puts me about 100-200 feet off the beach. If I dropped the anchor at 40 foot and tried for a 7:1 scope I'd run aground before I could set the anchor, wouldn't I? Besides, the area can get a little crowded during our short season (it's a popular place to lay up) and I don't think there'd be room for every boat there to be swinging around in an area roughly equivalent to two football fields.

I know someone's going to laugh, but I truly don't get it.
The requirement for high scope decreases with increasing depth. 7:1 is a general conservative sort of rule of thumb (most would say 5:1 or less is normal) for "normal" depths (i.e. just a few meters or less under the keel).

Remember this is all about keeping the pull on the anchor as close to horizontal as possible. The catenary in the rode is dictated by the amount of chain suspended in the water, and also a lower scope still equates to a decent amount of total line in deep water for the purposes of shock absorption, so you don't need as much scope. In the really deep stuff, 3:1 will adequate most of the time. If you're a cat anchoring in two feet of water, then you'll need a bit more than 7:1 Make sense?

300' of line is fine, although I would recommend a bit more chain than 30 feet. If you are anchoring in deep water, then you can't just rely on geometry of scope to lower the pull angle by just letting out 10:1 scope, for the reasons of impracticality that seem to be already apparent to you. This puts more focus on the catenary, for which you need chain (or a kellet, although these add complications and are usually a bit of a false economy - putting the weight into a larger anchor would probably do more overall good, for example). Keep in mind the other advantages of chain too.
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  #37  
Old 08-20-2006
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One other thing, you may like to check out Steve Dashew's website. He's been up in Alaska recently. Many of his recent posts talk about anchoring up there. www.setsail.com
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  #38  
Old 08-20-2006
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Many thanks for the good advise.

Thanks for all the GREAT advise. Looks like one of the first things I'll be looking into when I get home is a longer piece of chain! A wee bit more work when pulling the anchor in but if it'll keep us safer on the hook, it'll be well worth the investment. Besides, pulling up the extra chain will be good PT!

Thanks to all!
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  #39  
Old 01-11-2007
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Hi everyone. I'm the guy who started the thread (see first message)...

I'll gloat here about my initial intuition a bit :-) It was gratifying to see the "Annapolis School of Seamanship" (3rd edition, by John Rousmaniere, page 316) mention this as the right way to anchor. Quote:

"The first job is to make the rode lie at a shallow angle to the bottom. This requires initially veering out plenty of rode. .... These large scopes are only temporary. ... Once you're sure the rode is set, it's time to decrease scope by taking in line."
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Old 01-11-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iraklis
I'll gloat here about my initial intuition a bit :-) It was gratifying to see the "Annapolis School of Seamanship" (3rd edition, by John Rousmaniere, page 316) mention this as the right way to anchor. Quote:

"The first job is to make the rode lie at a shallow angle to the bottom. This requires initially veering out plenty of rode. .... These large scopes are only temporary. ... Once you're sure the rode is set, it's time to decrease scope by taking in line."
That doesn't mean Rousmaniere is correct per se. His comments are based on old anchor styles, which may not set properly at a reduced scope. Accordingly, a high scope needs to be used at first, but then is not practical for permanent deployment, so must be reduced.

The logic discussed above still applies. If you've had to set your anchor at an artificially high scope, how can you trust it in strong winds? And what happens if the anchor rolls out when the wind veers - will it re-set? What does this say about the anchor?
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